Topic: What do you love?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Sorry, that should have been 6.5billion (which is what it is due to be this year). I'll respond to the rest later on!

In the meantime:

Fine statistics but it is limited to direct payments and revenues from/to EU.
What do you think the membership in the EU is worth?
Or in other words:
How many companies only reside in your country, because you are part of the EU?
How many tourists are coming only because it's so easy to travel from the continent to your island?
How much money is streaming into and through your country only because you are part of the common market?

Two of my customers planned to expand to the UK, for some reason they postponed these plans to 2019.
How many companies do you think are reacting in the same way?

[samuelrichardscott]

but the simple fact that Britain (or whatever country) has paid more than it has received seems like a non-argument to me.

Actually it points out that we would have more money to spend on our own country if we didn't give it to the EU.

One of the arguments from silence was whether we could survive without the EU. Of course we could - in fact I think we could flourish. We have a trade deficit with the EU (we import more than we export) so I'm sure we could negotiate a rate like Switzerland did. Even if we couldn't, the World Trade Organisation restricts this to 6% anyway so isn't a big enough issue to worry about (certainly not one we can be 'punished' with) - especially when we can cancel the external tariffs EU demands to global trade on imports. There are a lot of negative impacts leaving the EU will have, there's no argument, but as a whole, I think once we get over the initial bumps, we'll be just fine on our own.

How many companies only reside in your country, because you are part of the EU?
How many tourists are coming only because it's so easy to travel from the continent to your island?
How much money is streaming into and through your country only because you are part of the common market?

How many companies base themselves in other EU countries to avoid paying taxes in the UK? Every time I buy a book for my kindle, it goes through Amazon Luxembourg to avoid taxes here because there they get charged just 3%. Swings and roundabouts.

The tourist question doesn't really suit IMO. We'll still be the same distance away, the travel links will still be the same - it might cost a little more, but that won't stop many.

How much money is streaming out because we are part of the common market? As I said, we lose a lot in EU tax loopholes that could effectively be closed.

[samuelrichardscott]

btw, Switzerland and Norway still have free trade with the EU despite not being member states. The UK could get this also due to the large deficit in us importing a lot more than we export (£3billion to Germany) so if you did impose tariffs, you'd be doing yourselves out of cash.

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The tourist question doesn't really suit IMO. We'll still be the same distance away, the travel links will still be the same - it might cost a little more, but that won't stop many.

Probably not, but what will stop many is that they suddenly have to show their passports again, are only allowed to buy one T-Shirt, 200 Cigarettes and a 1 liter-bottle of spirit if they want to avoid having to pay customs when returning to the EU. Always Remember: Schengen is for EU only (and for several reasons: Norway).

The "Never in 32 Years" argument is BTW that of the guy that canceled his health-insurance because he wasn't sick in 35 years.

Don't get me wrong, no one wants the part of the EU where bureaucrats-gone-berserk are trying to tell me what size a tomato has to be to be tomato.

But the idea of opening a small localised market in times of globalisation and believing that this might flourish is like opening a one man grocery-store next to a WalMart and hoping that WalMart is going to freeze in awe.

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

btw, Switzerland and Norway still have free trade with the EU despite not being member states.

You know the differences between Norway, Switzerland and the UK?

Norway is an associated member of the EU, is paying 1.8 billion € to Bruxelles a year and they have oil.
Switzerland is a transit country and the EU needs the Free-Trade agreement to get the goods cheaply from and to Italy, on the other hand Switzerland has no industry that is likely to endanger Europe.

The UK has oil, but they mostly need it for themselves, they are not willing to pay anything, and are not needed as transit country, since Ireland is faster reached by ship.
So why exactly should one want a Free-Trade agreement with a country that wants to have the advantages, but is not willing to pay for them?

[samuelrichardscott]

So why exactly should one want a Free-Trade agreement with a country that wants to have the advantages, but is not willing to pay for them?

Because we import from the EU far more than we export.

[samuelrichardscott]

Don't get me wrong, no one wants the part of the EU where bureaucrats-gone-berserk are trying to tell me what size a tomato has to be to be tomato.

This is essentially my biggest annoyance with the EU. The bureaucracy. I hate the fact that non-elected people are the ones in power.

If the vote was tomorrow, I'd vote to leave, but there are new legislations planned for the tax loopholes etc in 2015 so maybe my views will change before then. The individual countries need to have more say about their own states than the EU as a whole. Having an EU is a good thing, but it's poorly run and completely inadequate. Roll on later this year when we'll get half of Romania flocking to the UK, expecting housing and benefits.

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

So why exactly should one want a Free-Trade agreement with a country that wants to have the advantages, but is not willing to pay for them?

Because we import from the EU far more than we export.

To quote an earlier post of you:

The World Trade Organisation restricts this to 6% anyway so isn't a big enough issue to worry about

Not to forget that not a too small amount of the imports will be car parts from GM-Europe for Vauxhall which you'd have to import anyway.

What I mean is, no matter how hard you might wish for it, you are not part of local market only.
And the "Initial bumps" you mentioned may very well be inclined to ruin half of your industry.

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Roll on later this year when we'll get half of Romania flocking to the UK, expecting housing and benefits.

Man, you just gotta love "The Sun" with it's xenophobic stance.
If a German would make such a statement the same paper would have SS-Troopers on the cover.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last time that foreigners flocked "to the UK, expecting housing" was when William The Conqueror came in and he, in fact, first burnt down most of the housings on his way.

[samuelrichardscott]

Roll on later this year when we'll get half of Romania flocking to the UK, expecting housing and benefits.

Man, you just gotta love "The Sun" with it's xenophobic stance.
If a German would make such a statement the same paper would have SS-Troopers on the cover.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last time that foreigners flocked "to the UK, expecting housing" was when William The Conqueror came in and he, in fact, first burnt down most of the housings on his way.

*pauses movie again*

I'm not a reader of The Sun, or any tabloids for that matter but do feel like this country is losing its identity. I don't have anything against immigration, but there needs to be a cap so we can at least sustain it - employment wise, education wise and housing wise. I also don't think they should be allowed to claim any benefits and if they can't afford to stay here then that's okay, pack them in a bus and send them back home! I know that sounds harsh, but why should I work hard to see my taxes spent on people who have never given to this country (and I include many Brits in that too!)?

*As a side note, if I knew I could get a better life in a different country without having to contribute then you can be damn right I would do the same.

Just to further expand, the phrase I was look for is that I hate the "sense of entitlement" that comes with certain parts of being in the EU (and with the idiots who can't be arsed to work that are British).

[Piffi]

As a Norwegian, i gotta ask Silence. What you mean by "Norway is an associated member of the EU, is paying 1.8 billion € to Bruxelles a year and they have oil." ?
What you mean by "an associated member of the EU" ? (I should prolly know that, but i dont  )

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Check here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway–European_Union_relations

The problem with Norway is that even though a membership within the EU is either denied by the EU (1962 / 67) or Norway, they are closely intertwined with the other Scandinavian countries (Sweden, Denmark and Finland -> The former EFTA) which are EU members. Since the Scandinavian countries among each other already had free travel, it in fact was easier to treat Norway as "Closely Associated Member" then having to close down the borders to Sweden and Finland.

This association, in fact goes so far that until today Norway has transferred more than 6000 EU-bills into national law.

[Piffi]

Thank you Sir, i didnt know that.. 
But it was a interesting read.

[Jimmy]

While I re-do my profiles I update the cast / crew pictures also. Sometimes it isn't easy for the lesser know artist, but sometimes you find some nice surprise.

Just found a nice write-up about Monica Lane written by her daughter...

I don't know why but I feel nobody will know who she is... except maybe for the older member here.

My Mother the Pop Icon

[Blair]

I love when a good baseball game goes into extra innings.

A game that normally lasts 9 innings ran for 17 tonight resulting in the winning team's school to head for the national championship for the first time in 25 years. It is only their second time to make it that far.