Topic: [SPOILER] Inception - Discussion

[Critter]

Marie

(I'm about to discuss major spoiler points everyone, so if you haven't seen it don't click.)
Did you get the idea that the end was a dream, and that when he was spinning the little thing, and went off to see his children that when it toppled over he would wake up?

[Dragonfire]

EDIT - Since the thread has been split, I'm taking out spoiler tags now.  So only keep reading if you've seen the movie.  You've been warned and all that.  This warning applies to all future posts..I'll go take the spoiler tags out of them as well.

I'm not completely sure what I think about the ending yet.  At first I thought the little top thingy - or whatever it was - was just getting ready to fall when things ended..meaning that he was really back home and in reality.  Then I thought that maybe it meant he was still in a dream because it was still spinning...but I would go back to the little wobble.  I don't remember it wobbling like that any other time and not falling.  From what he said before, it would spin and not stop in a dream, but falls in reality.  Though why did he tell Adriane how his totem worked after it was ...enforced that people need to keep that to themselves so they'll know if they are dreaming or not.  Then there is the fact that he said it had originally been Mal's totem, which does make me wonder if it would work right for him...or if it worked different for him.  Though it seemed to be working at different parts in the movie.  I think there is uncertainty to the ending..and possibly to how much was a dream as well.  That is one of the strong points of the movie I think..how much it is making people think.  I know some people think that basically the whole movie is a dream..or that Cobb is stuck in limbo at the end.  I'm still deciding what I think about that stuff.

[Critter]

Mmm I was unsure about the totem as well, since it used to be Mal's. But as it was mentioned in the film, he has a habit of breaking his own rules.

I read this one theory, and this one kind of makes sense to me, but I didn't think of it while I watched the film.

The idea is that Mal was right, and when she jumped she landed back into reality with her kids, and Cobb is the one who is stuck behind. I read that the entire plot is Inception being used on Cobb to convince him to go back to his family, and to America. It is said that Adriane is the name of an God in ancient Greek mythology who once led other Gods out of a Labyrinth, so that she was sent as a sort of guide for Cobb. Also in the final scenes when he is leaving the airport all the team are watching him, as if they know he is about to enter reality, and then at then end when the spinning top finally does fall over, which we don't see as the credits start, then he does wake up in reality.

[Dragonfire]

I read a theory that was very much like that.  Cobb was the one stuck in the dream and Mal was right when she jumped.  That at that point, they were still in the first level of a dream.  Though, I don't think it said that he and Mal went into deeper levels of dreams when they ended up in limbo...I just remember Cobb saying that the explored deeper.  I don't think they were using drugs to do to the deeper dream levels like they were for the job.  Though that part wasn't really explained.  Again, more of the uncertainty.  I did read about the idea of the inception actually being done on Cobb because he was stuck in the dream.  One idea was that Miles was the dreamer of that...or maybe he was the architect.  I can't remember now. and Ariadne was asking so many questions about Mal and pushing Cobb to deal with that because that was part of the inception.  That is a very interesting idea.  I didn't think of that when watching either.  Though I did think at one point think that maybe everything was a dream...though not why it would have been a dream.  I also read one idea theory that said that Cobb and Saito weren't able to get out of limbo...so Cobb was still in limbo at the end.  [/spoiler]

[Achim]

This is why I suggested a separate thread (Guess I should have opened one right away myself )

EDIT: Now that it is a separate thread, I am removing the spoiler tags.

That theory is just: Up to now I clearly assumed that at the least the beginning was anchored in reality. Now maybe the whole film was a dream?

The great thing about the theory is, how well it goes with that one thing that nagged me about the end: the children's age. It would be apparent that Cobb had been away for home for years, yet when he returns home are the age they are in his memory. My friend argued, that in fact they only appear to him like that at first site, due to his memory, and would quickly "change" once he approaches them (which we don't see anymore. I have the feeling now that subconsciously my friend actually had the answer, just couldn't put his finger on it. Of course, the end could be a dream without the beginning being a dream as well.

I didn't quite catch the dialog regarding his totem. While I am not concerned that it was his (either way it's not a problem: if he inherited it from Mal, she's dead and can't use that against him OR she wants him out, so it's good she knows the details about the totem he is using).

Also, especially during the opening scene, I thought it was weird that Mal was there and actually worked against Cobb. Had she been his projection she should behave differently (maybe not help him, but at least not be a traitor). Now I see that possibly Mal was there herself and tried to manipulate the proceedings.

Darn, I will have to see this again. Maybe theatrically even, but at least on my first-day purchased Blu-ray. The search is on to find clues in the "reality scenes" that reveal it as actual dreams.


Karsten, I suggest making a new thread for this discussion, with all posts that have spoilers in them, and mark it SPOILER. Then all spoiler tags can be removed. Thank you.

[Dragonfire]

I have no problem with another thread with spoilers..like you suggested.  I guess I was thinking we might do that - which is why I put no spoilers in my title to begin with.

Oh..you probably want to fix your spoiler tag.

Oh I agree this is a movie that needs to watched again.  I do wonder if Christopher Nolan will ever say anything for sure to clear this stuff up...  I've read a lot of comments and theories from different people since I saw it.  One claimed that Nolan didn't have a clue either...  I don't believe that.  I think he knows, and he told the story with the uncertainty for a reason.  One thing a few people pointed out was that when dreaming, Cobb has on hiw wedding ring..in reality he doesn't.  I honestly don't remember noticing the ring one way or the other after some of those early scenes.  I just stopped paying to attention to that I guess.  So now I want to know if he has his ring on at the end...or if his left hand is even visible.

[Critter]

Achim put[/spoilers] at the end of his post instead of [/spoiler]. That's why it isn't working.

We will need a thread at some point for dicussion of this film of course. I can see the discussion lasting a long time, especially after more people see it. I thought maybe this thread could just be used but if we want to make a fresh one at some stage then that could work too.

[Achim]

Oh..you probably want to fix your spoiler tag.

Done.

I had noticed something was off while typing but obviously diodn't look at the end resultz after clicking Post. I hope nobody got spoiled.

Thanks for putting up the warning above my poist for the time it lasted.

[Dragonfire]

I saw that.  But I put the warning in my post just in case someone else came through that wants to avoid the spoilers would be warned until that can be fixed...or the spoiler stuff is moved.

We could do the spoiler thread and keep this one for just general discussion about the movie.  If Karsten or someone moves the posts with spoilers to the other thread.

Welcome.   It's easy enough to make a goof with code like that.  I thought the warning would be a good idea until you got it fixed.


Do you want to go ahead and start a thread for the spoiler type discussions and have all of them there from now on?

[Achim]

Oh I agree this is a movie that needs to watched again.  I do wonder if Christopher Nolan will ever say anything for sure to clear this stuff up...  I've read a lot of comments and theories from different people since I saw it.  One claimed that Nolan didn't have a clue either...  I don't believe that.  I think he knows, and he told the story with the uncertainty for a reason.  One thing a few people pointed out was that when dreaming, Cobb has on hiw wedding ring..in reality he doesn't.  I honestly don't remember noticing the ring one way or the other after some of those early scenes.  I just stopped paying to attention to that I guess.  So now I want to know if he has his ring on at the end...or if his left hand is even visible.

I am rather certain that the ending is open on purpose. I hope Nolan will never reveal what he personally thought. I think it's not that he has no clue, he probably just means it's open and you have to make your mind up yourself. Do you want him to dream or do you want him to be awake...

As for the wedding ring, the way you described it it's against the theory that the entire film is dream. On the other hand, it could clear up the ending. FWIW, I had not noticed such things, but would imagine such details to be there. Like I said, something to be looked out for in future viewings.


Another question we discussed after viewing the film is, why is the Japanese guy so old when the meet at the end, but Cobb isn't?

[Achim]

Welcome.   It's easy enough to make a goof with code like that.  I thought the warning would be a good idea until you got it fixed.

Good idea? No. GREAT idea.

Do you want to go ahead and start a thread for the spoiler type discussions and have all of them there from now on?

Let's keep talking here for now. then someone can move everything so eventually everything is in the other thread in correct sequence. I remember that chunks can be moved, but not necessarily resorted.

[lovemunkey187]

I want to watch this, but I just can't bring myself to do so.

I detest dicaprio too much that I start having violent urges when I see his smug weasley face 

[Dragonfire]

I am rather certain that the ending is open on purpose. I hope Nolan will never reveal what he personally thought. I think it's not that he has no clue, he probably just means it's open and you have to make your mind up yourself. Do you want him to dream or do you want him to be awake...

As for the wedding ring, the way you described it it's against the theory that the entire film is dream. On the other hand, it could clear up the ending. FWIW, I had not noticed such things, but would imagine such details to be there. Like I said, something to be looked out for in future viewings.


Another question we discussed after viewing the film is, why is the Japanese guy so old when the meet at the end, but Cobb isn't?

Oh I have no doubt that Nolan made the ending that way on purpose.  He has clearly shown with his other movies that he knows what he is doing, so I'm sure that hasn't changed with this one.  He knows, but he wants to leave things up to the viewers to decide.  He thinks the audience is smart enough to figure things out without being led to everything.  All the uncertainty about what was real and what was a dream was done on purpose.  Oh..that reminds me.  One thing I read suggested that the top or whatever spinning at the end was like a kick for the audience to take us back to reality.

The thing with his wedding ring wasn't going along with the idea that everything was a dream.  Someone just pointed when he was wearing it early in the movie..and then that he wasn't during the scenes that were supposed to be reality.  So this person believes that if the ring is there at the end, it is still a dream, but if it isn't, then he is awake.  I definitely remember seeing the ring early in the movie, though right now, I can't remember in which scenes exactly.  I also know I didn't notice it in the last scene.  So that is definitely something I want to watch for when I see it again...that probably won't be until I get the Blu-ray, but I will get it.  I will more than likely pre-order it.

About Saito - the Japanese guy - being older than Cobb at the end.  Time passes at different rates in dreams.  The deeper you go, the more time passes in the dream.  Cobb was talking about that during the planning for the job.  They would be asleep for like 12 hours...that would be 2 weeks in the first dream level...6 months in the second..and I think they said 10 years in the third.  Saito died in the dream.  I'm not completely sure which level though.  I know he was in bad shape in the third level - the snow fortress or whatever.  I think he was dead in that level of the dream when Easme got back there after setting the charges for the kick.  Maybe Saito died in all the dream levels.  Something else I'm unsure of and need another viewing - or several - to figure out.  But Saito died and ended up in limbo before Cobb.  It wasn't that long before, but it was long enough for decades to pass.  Limbo is a deeper level, so time goes even faster there..at least that is how I understand it.  Cobb and his wife spent 50 years in limbo, but they didn't age in reality..it was just hours.  Also with the passing of time,what was just a matter of seconds in the first level translated into like 20 minutes in the third level.  So a few minutes would easily be years..decades, in limbo.  

[RossRoy]

Alright people, spoil away! I've split the threads

[Critter]

Thanks for the new thread