Topic: Help with Windows 7 (32 bit) and RAM

[lyonsden5]

I got a new computer this week. It's a beast. Problem is with the 3D software one of my customers uses I can only run 32 bit. I set the computer up in prep for 64 bit and figure as soon as I'm done with this next job I turn it into a dual boot system. That was the plan anyway. The machine has 12 gb ram installed. I know Win 32 only reads 3GB but figured I would do the 12 for the dual boot. Turns out my video cards are eating up all my RAM.

I have two EVGA GeForce GTX295 Co-op Edition 1792MB DDR3 PCI-Express 2.0 Graphics Cards installed (for three 24" monitors and a 32" monitor). With the RAM allocated to the video cards I had about 1.5 GB of "free" ram available when nothing was running. Really didn't take long for me to use that up. This afternoon I was monitoring it and the Physical Memory usage climbed to the upper 90% at times, peaking at 99%. I obviously can't run it like that.

My interim solution was to remove one of the video cards. I now have 2.5 GB free. I've tried adjusting the settings in the bios as well as setting a minimum and maximum setting for memory. Neither did anything to help.

Any ideas? Or am I screwed until I go 64 bit?
 

[RossRoy]

WOW! Now THAT'S a PC.. though I'd argue we're past the "PC" moniker at this point and into "Workstation"... anyways!

It is a little beyond my understanding of hardware.. like I know there are limitations to how much memory can be addressed in 32bits... but, isn't video memory separate from system memory? why would your video cards eat up system memory? Because at this point, I don't think the video cards are interated to the motherboard...

i'm confused... i hope someone with more knowledge will be along to light both our lanterns...

but I must say, this sounds like quite an impressive setup!! and if I may... pictures of your work desk..please ??

[lyonsden5]

As soon as I get everything set up I'll post pics. Right now I have both towers (old and new) hooked up to the same  monitors and keep switching inputs to see what's going on. Problem is I keep typing on the wrong keyboard! 

I had no idea I would have this trouble. I too am confused about it and have been searching for two days for a solution. From what I found there isn't one,l except go 64 bit 

 

[Touti]

Rick,

Technically you can run using 90% of your memory, if you use "only" 90% then it's all you need, problems will occur when you get to 100% if ever and your Windows starts swapping on disk.  FYI, the maximum memory that a 32 bit OS will use is 4 Gig, not 3.......using PAE.

That said, I am guessing that your video cards drivers somehow "know" that windows isn't using the memory and they just take it.  If the drivers are smart, this should be dynamic and they will most probably release is back to windows (up to 4 Gigs) if you reach a certain threshold but it's not necessarily something one wants to rely on.

I can make 2 suggestions here.

1: Make sure you have the latest drivers for you video cards and check all the screens and tabs in their panels to see if there's an option somewhere to set a max "borrowable" memory.

2: Use Windows 7 64, install the Windows XP Mode and run your cad software in a virtual machine.  It's possible however that your cad software won't like that and you maye have to re-install again to go back to 32 bit.

I would be very very surprised if there wasn't a way to tell the drivers how much memory they can steal.

[lyonsden5]

Thanks Eric. I'll check on the drivers and look again for some memory control options. I also wasn't aware of the XP mode in Win 64. I may have one of my partners who alread y has a 64 bit setup check it out and see if it runs. 

[Touti]

XP Mode doesn't come with Windows 7, you need to download and install "Windows Virtual PC" and "Windows XP Mode" which are both free.  Microsoft basically gives you a free Win XP SP3 licence.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/download.aspx

How did you come to the conclusion that you "only" had 1.5G left of memory, I'm surprised that Windows doesn't protect your first 3 Gigs.  There's a new tool in Windows Vista/7 called "Resource Monitor", it's much better than the simple Task Manger and it shows you the things that TM doesn't.  You can easily find this tool by just typing Resource Monitor in the Start Menu's search box.

[Touti]

I'm surprised that Windows doesn't protect your first 3 Gigs. 

I should have searched before posting, the answer seems fairly simple.  It looks like you're only solution if you stay with a 32 bit OS is to reduce the hardware ram demand.

http://www.evga.com/FORUMS/tm.aspx?m=227

[lyonsden5]

I really do appreciate the help Eric. Unfortunately you've come to the same conclusion I did. I hadn't found the link you posted in my search. It does spell the issue out nicely.

Not a big deal for now. I'll be heading up to Georgia in a week and will be taking my computer with me, with only 2 monitors. Removing the 2nd video card will get me through the next 4 weeks or so. I'm told there is a beta of a 64 bit version of the software holding me back. If we can get our hands on the beta I can upgrade my system and be done with it.

[RossRoy]

Thanks for that Eric! That explains it nicely!

And I finally understand why my computer with a 512MB Card had less memory available than my Dad's with his 256MB card (both computers had 4GB RAM - all other hardware equal)... I never made the link that the amount "missing" from my computer was exactly the memory difference between my video and his!

[Touti]

Seb this is new to me too, I never realized that hardware was stealing memory this way.

Rick, I'm sure you've checked but just in case.............are you sure your cad software won't run on a 64 bit windows ?  16 bit apps can't run on a 64 bit OS but I've never heard of a 32 bit program that doesn't.

[lyonsden5]

The question was posed to our technical support group as follows: "Can you force ACAD 2009 32 bit to install on a Vista 64 bit machine?"

Answer: Installing the 32-bit version of AutoCAD on a 64-bit platform is an unsupported endeavor, and as such we have no documentation for such a procedure. You may, however, find that other users have figured out ways to achieve such an installation. Autodesk discussion forums can be accessed here: http://www.autodesk.com/discussion

Should you find a way to install the 32-bit version on a 64-bit platform, it's good to remember that it is an unsupported configuration of the AutoCAD software, and has not been tested by Autodesk.

....Autodesk Technical Support

And, yes, I do know that if I install the 64bit ACAD I will not be able to use the 3rd party software.

I would probably have more luck running it in XP mode (still may try that one). 

[Touti]

Typical support desk response......................yes it can be done but we won't tell you how and if you figure it out we don't want to hear from you afterwards...............

I guess you'll need 2 computers Rick

[RossRoy]

If it's any indication, I have a scanning software that I use, VueScan, that completely refused to interface with the 64bits driver of my scanner. Running it in XP Mode solved all my woes.

Also, when I tried installing AutoCAD 2009 on my Windows 7 (both 64bits), it kept crashing. Now I haven't looked for solutions (if there are any), because I didn't have the time and I installed the 32bits version into XP Mode. Worked like a charm.

Since then, I gotten hold of AutoCAD 2010 64bits, and it works well! (just have to remember to save in 2007 format! They of course changed the file format again...)

[lyonsden5]

So you were able to install 2009 32 bit into XP mode on a 64 bit machine? Hmmmmm......

[RossRoy]

So you were able to install 2009 32 bit into XP mode on a 64 bit machine? Hmmmmm......

Yep. Only little annoyance was that running in "Integrated" mode (the XP application running alongside the Win7 applications seamlessly) made it so the arrow pointer wouldn't go away. I haven't tried running it within the actual Virtual Machine.. but I'm guessing it would fix it.


EDIT: Just tried. It doesn't fix it. You always have the arrow pointer over the picker. It's a minor annoyance, but it is annoying.