Topic: Anime

[snowcat]

Well, Disney films generally concentrate on western fairytales ;P  so in theory pretty much the same as ghibli and there demons from Japanese history ;P

as for Ghost in the Shell, I liked the idea of the story, but did not enjoy the film, maybe I would appreciate it more If I watched it again

And Akira is highly overrated. although it does have the quote "what the hell are you talking about; you look like a damn crack head?" which myself and a friend often shout at each other.

of course they are making a live action Akira ;P with Macaulay Culkin and Leonardo DiCaprio producing ;P

[Najemikon]

Well, Disney films generally concentrate on western fairytales ;P  so in theory pretty much the same as ghibli and there demons from Japanese history ;P

Yeah, a singing Pocahontas, a singing Mermaid, a singing Beauty and the Beast, a singing Tarzan! I suppose it would help if I had the slightest interest in musicals, but Disney are showmen at heart so you have to buy into that hyper-reality fantasy crap where people sing about their bloody feelings all the time.

[snowcat]

Well, Walt Disneys films are old fairytales ;P

Newer disney is a random mismash of cultures to appeal to a wider audience

whilst I admit the songs can be annoying, they can also be great (Lion King soundtrack, Tarzan Soundtrack)

;P not a big musical fan myself.... but ill watch them.

[Critter]

Whilst you can say its a "medium" so are most other "genres" Comedy's can follow many a basic "artistic technique" but comedy is still classed as a genre

When I say medium I mean technically, the same as art mediums. Some pieces are done in pencil, others in paint and that is the medium of that image. Some films are done using a camera to film live-action, some are animated and some are a mix of both. Therefore I think the definition of medium and genre are wildly different.

In more straightforward terms, I find them far superior to modern Disney (excluding Pixar) because they don't treat kids like idiots who need sugary songs to understand something. They are powerful and often dark tales like proper kids stories used to be.

 

[snowcat]

Art isn't just to do with drawing though :p and camera techniques etc are are classed as "art" Breaking the foruth wall is an artistic comedy technique, for example.


Also I didn't say they were the same thing, but Animation is a genre ;P

[Critter]

I'm well aware that camera techniques can be considered an art, what I'm trying to say, which is what I've been trying to say all along is that animation isn't a genre. Live action films all have their own genres yet animated films are so often slumped all together. I honestly can't see anything that includes the animated 'Resident Evil' film and the latest 'Tinkerbell' flick as being the same genre.

[snowcat]

I'm well aware that camera techniques can be considered an art, what I'm trying to say, which is what I've been trying to say all along is that anime isn't a genre. Live action films all have their own genres yet animated films are so often slumped all together. I honestly can't see anything that includes the animated 'Resident Evil' film and the latest 'Tinkerbell' flick as being the same genre.

Anime and CGI are branchs of animation, as Mockumentry is a variety of comedy film, its to space consuming to put everything in an exact category.

I write Comedy and Drama films, they aren't all "conventional" but they are still classed as one or the other. How can you compare something like American Pie and The Producers? A sex comedy and a musical comedy.... regardless of what is contained if it has a common element it will be put in a basic genre then defined by a second.

All in all, what im trying to say is... You said Animation wasn't a "genre", and Im trying to explain to you why it is, you said it was a medium, im trying to explain why all genres have "mediums"

Right! now off to college to make my film

[Critter]

Animation is not a genre. Genre is about similar elements to the narrative of a film! The narrative not the appearance of a film! Kung Fu Panda is an animated film but it is also a comedy, if you want to be specific maybe action comedy or something but that is still it's genre.

Ghost in the Shell on the other hand is ALSO an animated film but with an extremly different genre which is cyberpunk.

Are both of these films animated? Yes! Are they both of the same genre? No! They have different genres and so does every animated film.

To say animation itself is a genre would be saying that every PIXAR film has similar narrative and story elements to say every Ralph Bashki films or even Japanese Hentei. Yes I know hentei is porn but it's animated, so in your opinion right that makes it similar to something like Ratatouille.

Here is a quote from Brad Bird. Since you seem to dislike PIXAR I will let you know that he is one of the directors there and very good. In any case I think this quote from him sums up what I am trying to explain to you.

People think of animation only doing things where people are dancing around and doing a lot of histrionics, but animation is not a genre. And people keep saying, "The animation genre." It's not a genre! A Western is a genre! Animation is an art form, and it can do any genre. You know, it can do a detective film, a cowboy film, a horror film, an R-rated film or a kids' fairy tale. But it doesn't do one thing. And, next time I hear, "What's it like working in the animation genre?" I'm going to punch that person! [From the audio commentary on the DVD for The Incredibles (2004)]

[snowcat]

Heh, Oh boy...

Yes, I am saying all of those are "Animated" I had this conversation with some one in a media studies class about 4 years ago, we researched it and discovered it is a genre. Why?

Because the film is animated animated.

Kung Fu Panda, is an animated / comedy

(You put the type of genre first then the defining one) < thats the important part.

Remember there are genres in Animation "Anime, Family,  Hentai" whatever... When on earth have you seen a shop put and Anime and family orientated animation in the same place? I have not.... at the same time, when have you seen Dumb and Dumber and Childs Play 2 in the same section?

Animated films, which is what we are talking about, are closed to films then anything else, and if they expect to be classed as film they will be put into genres just like everything else, now... I can imagine you want to say pixar make art? but they don't they make films, artistic films maybe... but what about David Lynch? his films are pretty artistic, he is a "Visual Artist"

¬_¬ here is a list of films that are classed as comedy somewhere in there genre....

The Lost Boys (Horror)
The Producers (Musical)
Best in Show (Mockumentry)
Chasing Amy (Drama)

How can I lump those all in to comedy? because thats what they are, I would add comedy to the end of each of those genres as I would add a secondary genre to each animated film.

...anyway, this is getting off topic now.

Anime, is often looked down upon due to the negative connotations with things like styling "BESM" and Hentai (which in Japan, is technically Abnormal porn, although... western audiences just see it as Porn.)

I think thats why a few people have problems, although :p if you want to watch the classics like GITS and Akira... Metropolis ;P (which I think is a little better then the other two.)

XD and now im late!

[DJ Doena]

To chip in: For me, claiming animation is a genre would be the same as claiming that black'n'white or silent is a genre - just because it's different. Animation is a movie making technique, not a genre.

Genre is about the story, not it's presentation.

[Critter]

First of all thanks DJ Doena

Secondly,

Anime, is often looked down upon due to the negative connotations

Often looked down upon? Yes hentei is but to say all anime is? That's a bit strange considering Japanese animation is high acclaimed throughout the world as some of the best animated films and series of all time.

You seem to always be bringing comedy films into this argument and I don't see what you are getting out of it. I know that there is more than one type of comedy genre just as there is with almost every genre but it's still a genre, not a MEDIUM.

You seem to be getting the term medium and the term convention confused here. I noticed you stated earlier about how certain genres use certain camera angles etc and seemed to think that was a medium. That is not, that is a convention. A medium stritcly speaking refers to what the product was made out of. Therefore live-action and animation are two different mediums, even though they are often blended together in the same films.

Anyway now I'm getting off track. It's true that often a slash is used in the details of a film such as Animation/Comedy but that doesn't mean animation is it's genre. Animation still simply refers to the art form, the way in which the film was made, not the conventions of it's storyline.

But of course you know more than two time academy award winner Brad Bird don't you.

I'm sorry I made you late. Have fun with your little film.

[snowcat]

...Ok, maybe its subjective then?.. but so are alot of things.

although I think your last post was quite rude especially the " But of course you know more than two time academy award winner Brad Bird don't you. " Of course I don't :S do you?..

Also, Yes anime is looked down upon, alot of people I got to college with and went to school with didnt watch anime because they thought it was porn, regardless of what you tell some, now to people who know what it is maybe they know its not porn, but not everybody knows what anime is.

I was comparing genres by saying "Comedy" as its the easiest genre to show how things crossover.

you will fine like yourself, that sometimes people that enjoy animated films, often enjoy a wide range of animated films, that is why they are clumped together, to make it easy for those people .

(Notice how im not saying ALL )

[Critter]

I know my last comment was rude and I'm sorry but I have a evil side that tends to be unleashed when I get really, really pissed off. And when people say animation is a genre is one of those times.
It's sort of like the Hulk, only less green but I still cant control it.

I took your rambling about going to college to make your film added with a grin as an attack, and a way to try and degrade my opinions since I am not yet in college. That is what made me mad.

I know that some people enjoy a wide range of animated films which I do, but I also enjoy a wide range of live action films and do not clump all of them into the same genre.

Anyway now that you have brought out my dark side which I was hoping wouldn't be revealed in this forum I will say that I will permenantly leave if you and other members wish me too.

[Critter]

Also just had to say I think it's strange most people you know didn't watch anime becuase they thought it was porn. Almost everyone I have spoken to about anime, which is a lot have never even heard of such a thing as anime but instead relate it to childhood programs which were very popular in the Western world such as Pokemon and Sailor Moon. Hentei was definatly not the first thing any of them thought of.

[snowcat]

..No, I actually had to go to college, as it was getting later and later. and I was actually late in the end...

Why would making a film be an attack on you? :S

...public forums are full of argumentative people, I frequent a few that have people who are far more argumentative then you are, but there is a line between arguing and insulting :S just be careful yeah?

obviously, when you are writing something you can't see somebody's tone, more so when they write something fast (as I often do) you may have felt it was an attack on you, but it wasn't it was me giving my 2 cents,... most things are subjective and when it comes to film, you will find even more stuff is subjective.

  


..Over here, The only anime on the free channels was Pokemon and Digimon, people watched these but didn't associate them with anime, because they see anime as being an adult thing, in my school we do a module on Anime at year 10 aged 16, you are taught what "Anime" is, and the type of things it contains

... the biggest one being Violence, and then Sex, when I say sex I don't mean full on sex, but things like skinny women with big breasts etc. obviously. Now, I can see where that opinion is formed, the text you study for that module is Ghost in the Shell. now all of those are present in that film... and I think it was the worst choice to show a class of 16 year olds to form an opinion on Anime, but at the same time, thats the curriculum, those who went out and discovered anime found its not all that way but, those who chose not to (most people in the class) stuck with the view of sex and violence.

at the same time, I went to an all girls school, (next door to an all boys school? :S) and obviously, anime is very male dominated which probably pissed some of the uhh "chearleader" stereotypes off.