Topic: New equipment - analyze phase

[xyrano]

I wish to upgrade my hardware park.

Today I have a computer which was assembled by myself using selected components. I had a CRT monitor at the time so I didn't invest in anything better on that front. It has some 5-6 fans built in the box (big tower), but since I built it myself my tolerance level was very high in the beginning. Now, my tolerance level is very low. I can for instance not create any music with it anymore as the noise it makes disturbs my concentration.
I use the computer for everything as I do not have or want a TV; web, creating music, playing games, programing.

Some requirements I've set down:
1. No TV receiver what so ever. Which means; no TV, no TV receiver in a monitor and no TV receiver on the graphical circuit board.
 - In Sweden we must pay some instance or other a yearly fee if we have a TV receiver in the household, 1 of those in the household is enough to be bound by law.
 - I hate when they break my viewing pleasure with advertisements! 
2. Any and all hardware I eventually get must run silently (virtually no sound).
3. I would like to get as few hardware items as possible and use it/those for as much different things as possible.
4. I wish to increase my overall viewing pleasure which probably means a projector or a big monitor.
5. I need a PC for the things I normally do. I also have 100 or so PC games I want to replay some day.
6. I wish to start play console games, and want to use whatever screen I eventually get as the output for the console.
7. I do not wish to connect/disconnect any hardware once it all is connected.

If I get a monitor for the PC I aim towards 24" or higher. I wish to have a dual monitor environment in the end.
I could get a projector and use that for everything, but then I will probably use up that lamp very quickly.

Here is where it gets annoyingly difficult for me to decide what to get. LCD, TFT, Plasma or projector 
 - I once purchased a TFT for a high price at one of our online retailers. Once I plugged it in it had 3 bad pixels, 1 of them in the center view and it was green. I quickly returned it and got my money back. It was a hazel. Is it only TFT monitors that uses pixels? 
Needless to say, I am deeply concerned about getting a TFT.

What output connector does a xbox360 have?
Say I get a PC with a GFX board that have 1 DVI and 1 VGA output connector. I also get 2 monitors; I plug monitor 1 into the DVI connector and monitor 2 into the VGA connector. How do I connect a xbox360?
Can a monitor receive two input sources at the same time and then let me select which one to use?

I suppose I could get a xbox360 and take it from there but I would most likely want to play a game right there and then.

And then there is the audio connectors. Hmm, a PC and a xbox360 to 1 set of speakers. I probably need a amplifier of sorts, ohh crap!

I though maybe you all have some tips to share.

[Touti]

Will you be using that as your DVD Player also?  I mean, is it a HTPC that you want to build, is gonna be in the living room or in your home office ?

[xyrano]

Will you be using that as your DVD Player also?  I mean, is it a HTPC that you want to build, is gonna be in the living room or in your home office ?

Unless I go for a projector with an DVD-player on the side my PC will be a HTPC. This option is open for me as I have not got any "cool" stuff at present.
My PC gonna sit in the living room as it also doubles as "my office", I spend all my time home in the living room.

[Touti]

Then I suppose you're looking for an HTPC casing as opposed to a regular mini/mid tower ?  If that's the case you might like the one I got, it's nice, looks just like any electronic component of a home theatre and it's extremely quiet.

http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=15740#

Silverstone's enclosure also have a very good reputation.

http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=15740#

[xyrano]

Then I suppose you're looking for an HTPC casing as opposed to a regular mini/mid tower ?  If that's the case you might like the one I got, it's nice, looks just like any electronic component of a home theatre and it's extremely quiet.

http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=15740#

Silverstone's enclosure also have a very good reputation.

http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=15740#

This HTPC concept is new to me...
I guess there are special mother boards to go with those type of casings?
Thanks for the hint... I would never have thought about the HTPC route.

[edit]
  Although that casing certainly look awesome, I don't think I'm looking for a HTPC.
If I'm to believe what that wiki page say, it is coming up short in the PC gaming area. It also seems mostly built for the TV area.

[Achim]

Here is where it gets annoyingly difficult for me to decide what to get. LCD, TFT, Plasma or projector 
 - I once purchased a TFT for a high price at one of our online retailers. Once I plugged it in it had 3 bad pixels, 1 of them in the center view and it was green. I quickly returned it and got my money back. It was a hazel. Is it only TFT monitors that uses pixels? 
Needless to say, I am deeply concerned about getting a TFT.

Don't they all have pixels somehow...? I mean, CRT's have pixels for sure, but they are less likely to be damaged the same way it can happen with TFTs. I once had a Notebook with a broken pixel (luckily in a less prominent spot) and was told that up to three of those are "acceptable" for the manufacturer. Yours got taken back, so that's great.

I have a ViewSonic 24" TFT (1920x1200) and am very happy with it (no broken spots on the screen). But seeing what you want to do with it, you may even want to get something larger. Depending on your setup (desk size, or wherever you use the computer) 30" could still be fine (I am fairly close to my monitor, so 24" is the largest I can do).  If you go larger, then using it as a computer may be weird. Resolution will be great to display loads of windows at the same time, but I am not sure if that couldn't get irritating at some point...

[Touti]

It's really nothing more than a casing with a particular design to keep it quiet.  It doesn't require a special motherborard, you just have to check the specs of the enclosure you're interested in to make sure it supports the form factor of the motherboard you want.  For instance the one I showed you requires a micro atx (9.6x9.6) motherboard which is very common.

Typically, the good htpc cases will come with a powerfull and ultra-quiet power supply which is what you want in a living room.  The basic idea is quite simple, instead of having a huge fan that spins like crazy, you have many that spins slower, lower speed = less airflow = less noise.  You obviously get less warm air getting out which is why you need more fans.  You also want your casing to have a good internal design with places to tie down wires and cables inside.  One of the noisy thing in a pc is when the air "siffles" around wires and cables so you want them to be tied around the casing and on frame separations where they won't disturb the airflow.

Another thing that is noisy is when air moving in one direction collides with air moving in another direction, a good htpc casing should have separated compartments with their own fans and exits for air, some also come with plastic pieces that you can put together and snap inside the casing to build walls.  Mine has that make sure the air coming out the cpu fan is directed toward the rear exits to avoid disturbing the air flow on the side fans.  This also prevents air from the cpu, which is the hottest in your computer, to mix with the other air and warming it up which would increase the overall internal temperature.

The most annoying thing in a HTPC is when you start hearing vibrations from inside your computer.  To avoid this you want to fix your hard disks and dvd drives using rubber gromlets around the screws, they will act as a "suspension" that will absord the vibrations and prevent metal parts to shake and get noisy.  Many HTPC casings come with them, if yours doesn't you can buy them separatly as "quiet kits".

Of course, if your computer is well designed and, very importantly, well put together, the inside won't get extremely hot so there is no reason for your fans to run at full speeds so you want variable speed casing fans.  There are those with a small switch on them, that's what I use and I set them at the lowest speed.  There's also those that connect to the motherboard and are controled by your bios.  In today's tecnology, CPU and power supply fans are pretty much always smart and controlled by the motherboard.

Last advice, if you want to keep a computer quiet then you have to keep it clean.  I always keep air cans at home and twice a year I open my computers, take them outside and blow air everywhere in them to get rid of all the dust.  Dust on fans is obviously not spread equally, it changes the weight distribution of the fans, makes it run less efficiently, forces the bearing and they get noisy, keeping them clean will prevent that, it will also ensure that the openings in the fans for the air to go out don't get smaller so your computer will keep running at a low temperature, your fans won't spin faster than they should, they will last longer and keep quiet.

[RossRoy]

For the Xbox360, depending  on the TV/Monitor you choose, there is a model with HDMI, or you could skip that and get the VGA cable for the Xbox, with a VGA switchbox to the monitor.

For sound, most modern soundcard will have some sort of optical SPDIF passthrough, so you could run the optical cable from the Xbox, to the PC, then out to the amp/receiver.

Since you make music, you must have need for good speakers and receivers, so I don't know how you'd like what I'm about to suggest, but anyway, I have here a Logitech 5.1 set of speaker, that integrates both a DTS and DD decoder. Didn't cost too much either back then, somewhere about 300-400 and they sound decent enough.

And about the TFT screens, someone probably mentioned it above, but while there can still be dead pixel, their occurances is much less today than it was a few years ago.

[xyrano]

Here is where it gets annoyingly difficult for me to decide what to get. LCD, TFT, Plasma or projector 
 - I once purchased a TFT for a high price at one of our online retailers. Once I plugged it in it had 3 bad pixels, 1 of them in the center view and it was green. I quickly returned it and got my money back. It was a hazel. Is it only TFT monitors that uses pixels? 
Needless to say, I am deeply concerned about getting a TFT.

Don't they all have pixels somehow...? I mean, CRT's have pixels for sure, but they are less likely to be damaged the same way it can happen with TFTs. I once had a Notebook with a broken pixel (luckily in a less prominent spot) and was told that up to three of those are "acceptable" for the manufacturer. Yours got taken back, so that's great.
x: Yea, tell me about it! "Pixel guarantee", why can't they guarantee zero faulty pixels...   Anyway, I may have to risk it or I'll never get to enjoy a "big" flat screen.

I have a ViewSonic 24" TFT (1920x1200) and am very happy with it (no broken spots on the screen). But seeing what you want to do with it, you may even want to get something larger. Depending on your setup (desk size, or wherever you use the computer) 30" could still be fine (I am fairly close to my monitor, so 24" is the largest I can do).  If you go larger, then using it as a computer may be weird. Resolution will be great to display loads of windows at the same time, but I am not sure if that couldn't get irritating at some point...

I was thinking about getting a screen that can be hung on the wall, that way I would have the entire desk clear for everything else.
I gonna have to find some store around here that can give demo of how a desktop will be displayed on a 30" or higher screen. If I can't find one, I think I'll go with a 24" screen. Tell me, what was/is the pixel guarantee on that ViewSonic you got, 1, 2, 3 or more?

[xyrano]

It's really nothing more than a casing with a particular design to keep it quiet.  It doesn't require a special motherborard, you just have to check the specs of the enclosure you're interested in to make sure it supports the form factor of the motherboard you want.  For instance the one I showed you requires a micro atx (9.6x9.6) motherboard which is very common.

Typically, the good htpc cases will come with a powerfull and ultra-quiet power supply which is what you want in a living room.  The basic idea is quite simple, instead of having a huge fan that spins like crazy, you have many that spins slower, lower speed = less airflow = less noise.  You obviously get less warm air getting out which is why you need more fans.  You also want your casing to have a good internal design with places to tie down wires and cables inside.  One of the noisy thing in a pc is when the air "siffles" around wires and cables so you want them to be tied around the casing and on frame separations where they won't disturb the airflow.

Another thing that is noisy is when air moving in one direction collides with air moving in another direction, a good htpc casing should have separated compartments with their own fans and exits for air, some also come with plastic pieces that you can put together and snap inside the casing to build walls.  Mine has that make sure the air coming out the cpu fan is directed toward the rear exits to avoid disturbing the air flow on the side fans.  This also prevents air from the cpu, which is the hottest in your computer, to mix with the other air and warming it up which would increase the overall internal temperature.

The most annoying thing in a HTPC is when you start hearing vibrations from inside your computer.  To avoid this you want to fix your hard disks and dvd drives using rubber gromlets around the screws, they will act as a "suspension" that will absord the vibrations and prevent metal parts to shake and get noisy.  Many HTPC casings come with them, if yours doesn't you can buy them separatly as "quiet kits".

Of course, if your computer is well designed and, very importantly, well put together, the inside won't get extremely hot so there is no reason for your fans to run at full speeds so you want variable speed casing fans.  There are those with a small switch on them, that's what I use and I set them at the lowest speed.  There's also those that connect to the motherboard and are controled by your bios.  In today's tecnology, CPU and power supply fans are pretty much always smart and controlled by the motherboard.

Last advice, if you want to keep a computer quiet then you have to keep it clean.  I always keep air cans at home and twice a year I open my computers, take them outside and blow air everywhere in them to get rid of all the dust.  Dust on fans is obviously not spread equally, it changes the weight distribution of the fans, makes it run less efficiently, forces the bearing and they get noisy, keeping them clean will prevent that, it will also ensure that the openings in the fans for the air to go out don't get smaller so your computer will keep running at a low temperature, your fans won't spin faster than they should, they will last longer and keep quiet.

It sound as if you've built one or two PCs in your lifetime 

I must confess, that I did not think so much about some of the excellent tips you gave me here, when I built my PC.
I've got the standard amount of fans; Power Supply, CPU, GFX fans and then 1 fan for each of the 2 Harddrives. One more fan just above the CPU sucking air outward. 6 in total. I could probably get a new CPU fan to decrease ambient sound, but I also need to upgrade the GFX (for higher resolution and the latest games). A new 64 bit CPU would be nice which means I need new RAM sticks. Oo, a new MB is needed if I upgrade the CPU. Maybe I just get a complete package already assembled. 

[xyrano]

For the Xbox360, depending  on the TV/Monitor you choose, there is a model with HDMI, or you could skip that and get the VGA cable for the Xbox, with a VGA switchbox to the monitor.

For sound, most modern soundcard will have some sort of optical SPDIF passthrough, so you could run the optical cable from the Xbox, to the PC, then out to the amp/receiver.

Since you make music, you must have need for good speakers and receivers, so I don't know how you'd like what I'm about to suggest, but anyway, I have here a Logitech 5.1 set of speaker, that integrates both a DTS and DD decoder. Didn't cost too much either back then, somewhere about 300-400 and they sound decent enough.

And about the TFT screens, someone probably mentioned it above, but while there can still be dead pixel, their occurances is much less today than it was a few years ago.

HDMI or VGA! Check.

The sound card I chosen (a long time ago but never got around to getting one) is of the brand M-Audio. I don't recall the exact specs on the one I have in mind now but I should be able to find a M-Audio card with a SPDIF connector.

 

I was recommended to go for a 2-way set as they claim it doesn't color the sound spectrum as "my" Logitech 5.1 system do. 
I have not give a thought on which speakers to get yet.

[xyrano]

oh and thank you all for your time!

[RossRoy]

The sound card I chosen (a long time ago but never got around to getting one) is of the brand M-Audio. I don't recall the exact specs on the one I have in mind now but I should be able to find a M-Audio card with a SPDIF connector.

M-Audio makes great soundcards, I have a Revolution 7.1 myself, but make sure to check out their Vista drivers roadmap. M-Audio customers have been waiting for Vista support for AGES, and it's still not really available yet, and those that are available are only 32bits.

If you want to go with Vista, while I don't know how robust the drivers are for it, I can say that the HT Omega Claro+ looks like a VERY interesting card, that I am currently considering as an upgrade to my Revolution 7.1.

[Touti]

It sound as if you've built one or two PCs in your lifetime 

PCs ?   I thought this was the thread about installing a central A/C system

[xyrano]

The sound card I chosen (a long time ago but never got around to getting one) is of the brand M-Audio. I don't recall the exact specs on the one I have in mind now but I should be able to find a M-Audio card with a SPDIF connector.

M-Audio makes great soundcards, I have a Revolution 7.1 myself, but make sure to check out their Vista drivers roadmap. M-Audio customers have been waiting for Vista support for AGES, and it's still not really available yet, and those that are available are only 32bits.
x: Excellent advice, will do!

If you want to go with Vista, while I don't know how robust the drivers are for it, I can say that the HT Omega Claro+ looks like a VERY interesting card, that I am currently considering as an upgrade to my Revolution 7.1.

That HT Card looks good, but I have acoustic guitar and a mic that I wish to plug in as well. So, I need 2 of those big silvery connectors displayed on this image.