Topic: 5 Ways to Stop Trolls From Killing the Internet

[Jimmy]

An interesting article on cracked.com this morning about this subject. This is a place that I visit each day and, even if, most of the time their articles are too juvenile for my taste they are able to write something good. The subject is not a problem here, but I've stopped to visit a lot of forum and read newsgroup entirely (remember this old fashion internet zone like an email discussion) because of this reason. Surprisingly I agree completly with their #1 solution, but thinking of it this is the reason why we don't have the problem here.

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[Najemikon]

An interesting article on cracked.com this morning about this subject. This is a place that I visit each day and, even if, most of the time their articles are too juvenile for my taste they are able to write something good. The subject is not a problem here, but I've stopped to visit a lot of forum and read newsgroup entirely (remember this old fashion internet zone like an email discussion) because of this reason. Surprisingly I agree completly with their #1 solution, but thinking of it this is the reason why we don't have the problem here.

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This site is like a hippy commune, Jimmy! We don't advertise so people hardly know how to find us. Shush!

I've been using the Internet since about 1993. I was already working for a computer services company and remember when we setup our first email address and a special PC just for the Internet! Such innocent times. But almost immediately I was struck by how the Internet was shining like some weird beacon, attracting all the knobheads to one place, much like moths to a flame. For years, because the Internet was still the realm of geeks (even shopping online was considered the domain of the nerdish!), the trolls were tolerated and controlled. Still the subject of anonymity and Internet Police came up frequently and I always passionately disagreed. The web in its raw, fun state had to stay free and unmoderated.

I can't think like that any more. Truly, the inmates have taken over the asylum and the time has come for the web to grow up. Most sites are affected by a margin of idiocy and it still wouldn't be a huge problem, except using the Internet has already surpassed being accepted, it's taken for granted. Most people I know treat the web like water; it's just there and enters every conversation and past-time. Put simply, there are too many normal people on the Internet now, waiting to make use of technologies and it isn't fair that twats should stop them just because they think they have a right to. You can't get away with abusing fellow customers in Asda (I know, I've tried!) so why should you be able to insult people on Asda.com?

Even at work, I've thought of setting up IM systems for users, or expanding the Intranet, yet I hit this wall in my mind: what about the spam, the spoofing, the phishing and the viruses, or the plain old-fashioned, honest bullying? So I don't bother. How can I convince people of even a small part of the revolution, if I have to include self-defence in the introduction?

Imagine when the first cash machine appeared and people were being tempted away from cheques and having to wait for the bank to open. "Here you are, madam, just walk up to the machine, pop your card in and out jumps your cash! Isn't it clever?"... if that was the Internet, you'd have to add, "...but don't forget your gas mask, cattle-prod, loaded gun and mace." Granny wouldn't be the only one still keeping her money under the bed, we would as well! These mentally retarded morons are holding up a truly seamless Internet experience, while bleating about Free Speech.

Bring on the Web Coppers. Give them whistles, truncheons and bloody flashing lights. The whole works.

[Jimmy]

I was checking your link Jon (Asda.com) since I'm curious. So my first impression was "Hey it looks like a british Walmart", checking the faq I got my answer

 
First one is the homepage logo and the other is the logo on the faq page. Are they so ashame that they want to hide it?

We advertise the website sometimes by putting a link to it on post we do on the other forum, but the mood here is probably to friendly for them 

When they talk about the freedom of speech they forget that this right isn't without some obligation in real life. I can't say everything about everyone if this isn't true and I risk a visit to a judge for that. On the internet most people can say any stupid things crossing their mind because they are anonymous, remove this and internet will re-become the nice place it was 10 years ago.

And to be honest some people had nothing to do on the web... Don't want to name anyone, but I thing we can agree that the majority of the users that comment on Youtube count a lot of them 

[Touti]

Jimmy I don't know if you're referring to something specific at Invelos about the "Freedom of Speech" but I really get angry at how it's been invoked by people in North America in recent years.  They want to insult people and say all kind of stupidities and claim "Freedom of speech" to justifiy themself.

I don't like that because I think it diminishes the real meaning of what freedom of speech is.  Anybody in the United States can go out and say George Bush is a moron, anyone in Canada can say that Jean Charest is an idiot, Mario Dumont is a dumbass or anything else you can come up with but there's is absolutely no risk for them in doing so.  There are countries where you can't even ask questions without ending up in jail and sometimes even tortured.

True freedom of speech is having the right to criticize your government without risks to your life and when this right is so easily taken away from hundreds of millions of people in the world, I think it shouldn't be used lightly because it loses its real sense and that's not good.

It's a good thing I no longer visit the other site because if I read a claim to "Freedom of speech" for the kind of crap they're posting there I would probably tell them to have respect for the people who risk their lives by speaking their mind.  The only freedom people who live in free countries can claim on forums is the "Freedom of being an ass".

[Jimmy]

Jimmy I don't know if you're referring to something specific at Invelos about the "Freedom of Speech" but I really get angry at how it's been invoked by people in North America in recent years.

No it was a general observation on the web (internet + newsgroup¹)

I don't like that because I think it diminishes the real meaning of what freedom of speech is. (...) anyone in Canada can say that Jean Charest is an idiot, Mario Dumont is a dumbass...

But those statements are true  OK no politic here 

or anything else you can come up with but there's is absolutely no risk for them in doing so.

There are always a risk. If a court judged that what was said is completly untrue you will have to pay a monetary compensation (never seen anyone put in jail for his oppinion here). It's untrue to say that "Freedom of Speech" equals "I can say everything on anything" like many seem to think. I don't know but for me a forum is like a house : if someone is at my appartment and he say "OMG !!!80085!!..." like a moron I will throw him out since he annoy me. It's the same for the troll on a forum who are annoying and more for everyone. Why we have to read "that's gay", "you're a dumbass", "you're an evil socialist",... on almost every conversation on every forum²

1. If they always exist 
2. Not every forum are like that. AV Maniacs, Snopes and of course our little hippy commune to name some board where I'm a member are not like that...

[Halo2]

Jimmy I don't know if you're referring to something specific at Invelos about the "Freedom of Speech" but I really get angry at how it's been invoked by people in North America in recent years.  They want to insult people and say all kind of stupidities and claim "Freedom of speech" to justifiy themself.

I don't like that because I think it diminishes the real meaning of what freedom of speech is.  Anybody in the United States can go out and say George Bush is a moron, anyone in Canada can say that Jean Charest is an idiot, Mario Dumont is a dumbass or anything else you can come up with but there's is absolutely no risk for them in doing so.  There are countries where you can't even ask questions without ending up in jail and sometimes even tortured.

True freedom of speech is having the right to criticize your government without risks to your life and when this right is so easily taken away from hundreds of millions of people in the world, I think it shouldn't be used lightly because it loses its real sense and that's not good.

It's a good thing I no longer visit the other site because if I read a claim to "Freedom of speech" for the kind of crap they're posting there I would probably tell them to have respect for the people who risk their lives by speaking their mind.  The only freedom people who live in free countries can claim on forums is the "Freedom of being an ass".

 
Well said. I heartily agree.
While I still look through the site for usefull, fun information, I still have to clean out my BS filters after almost every thread.

[Najemikon]

Written by Eric


Oh shhhh......t.  Jon I'm so sorry, I wanted to quote your post but I edited it instead.  Unfortunately I no longer have your text in my browser history so I can't put it back.

I'm really sorry !

[Jimmy]

Jon you will have to write it again, I've not seen your original post. After that I want to read the reply by Eric, but don't edit it this time 

Use this fonction instead

[Najemikon]

 

I'll have to do it tomorrow! It's late here.

Is this some sort of ironic joke? We're talking about moderation, policing the net, a screwed up take on freedom of speech and you decide to delete me??!!?? Coincidence, much!

People, read this quick before El Erico spots it. YOU CAN'T STOP THE SIGNAL! ATTICA! ATTICA!

[Touti]

The worst part is that I didn't even have the time to read it.  I only wanted to quote the first sentence to pick on Jon a little, that's why I lost the rest of the post.

It's not the first time it happens and Seb was worried that he might do that too when he agreed to moderate the forum while I'm away (Which I should be actually, I'm just sticking around for a day because of all the spam we got).  I'm gonna check if there's a way to make the forum ask for a confimation when we edit someone else's post.

[DVDsRGreat]

Jimmy I don't know if you're referring to something specific at Invelos about the "Freedom of Speech" but I really get angry at how it's been invoked by people in North America in recent years.  They want to insult people and say all kind of stupidities and claim "Freedom of speech" to justifiy themself.

I don't like that because I think it diminishes the real meaning of what freedom of speech is.  Anybody in the United States can go out and say George Bush is a moron, anyone in Canada can say that Jean Charest is an idiot, Mario Dumont is a dumbass or anything else you can come up with but there's is absolutely no risk for them in doing so.  There are countries where you can't even ask questions without ending up in jail and sometimes even tortured.

True freedom of speech is having the right to criticize your government without risks to your life and when this right is so easily taken away from hundreds of millions of people in the world, I think it shouldn't be used lightly because it loses its real sense and that's not good.

It's a good thing I no longer visit the other site because if I read a claim to "Freedom of speech" for the kind of crap they're posting there I would probably tell them to have respect for the people who risk their lives by speaking their mind.  The only freedom people who live in free countries can claim on forums is the "Freedom of being an ass".

Very well said Eric! Kudos!! I still visit the other site quite often but try and stay absolutely away from all the crap that get's posted there. If I feel that a thread is turning into such, I just stop reading that particular thread!

[Jimmy]

I'm just sticking around for a day because of all the spam we got.

Since every spammer use the Afganistan country flag (at least for those I've seen) maybe a good way would be to place an automatic ban on every user using it to register. I've no idea if it's possible, but if it is I don't think that it could affect any real registering user.

[Touti]

I'm just sticking around for a day because of all the spam we got.

Since every spammer use the Afganistan country flag (at least for those I've seen) maybe a good way would be to place an automatic ban on every user using it to register. I've no idea if it's possible, but if it is I don't think that it could affect any real registering user.

No the country thing isn't part of SMF, it's a mod that I added.  It seems to be OK now, I've changed some of the settings of the registration form and it seems to prevent the bots from registering.

[Najemikon]

As I was saying, before being rudely interrupted, nay! Deleted!   

I just wanted to say I agree with Eric’s sentiments about “free speech” especially as it caused me a huge problem. As some of you know I used to moderate the Virgin forums and this was bespoke software where people couldn’t post directly. One of the Hosts had to approve every message. That’s no longer practical, but it had its benefits.

When Virgin closed down their content channels, I took the regulars to a new forum hosted by a mate of mine, very like this site. Although people could now post directly, I continued to use Virgin’s code of practice in moderating. There was this one guy I had to continually warn to tone down his language or personal attacks, but by and large I left them alone. Again, like here, it was a tight knit bunch and they could handle him.

Then the Soham case gripped the UK and being a UK based forum, feelings were running high. Someone posted a thread wishing for the safe return of the girls, which sadly didn’t happen, and the thread continued as if in mourning.

The guy I’d had trouble with was American and his comments were less welcome than usual. Not because he was "foreign" of course, but he failed to treat the others with tact and respect or keep his thoughts in context. So I warned him.

He responded with a page long rant, which started by slagging off our police efforts in the case, but ended with some truly awful and reprehensible comments directed at the victims. I drew the line and deleted the post, then banned him.

One other user had seen the post, been upset by it, and agreed I had no choice. Everyone else though, couldn’t believe he’d go that far, took his side (he’d re-registered under another name to complain) and said that I had deprived him of his freedom of speech. I could have shown them the post, but I decided I shouldn’t have to defend myself and stuck to my original convictions that I did not want them to see it!

That pissed me off so much I closed the forum. I wanted nothing more to do with those people and their twisted view of FoS. I had deprived him of nothing. On the contrary, I had given him his soapbox! But it was ultimately my decision what sort of forum it was going to be. Just as Jimmy said about his house, that was my ground, my rules. Free speech? My arse.

We have a pretty free reign here, but I seem to remember Eric asking us to calm down a thread that was descending past the gutter? Even by Kathy’s standards it was out of control. Well, dammit, that restricted my freedom of speech!

And where’s the Viagra guy gone? Surely you didn’t remove his post, thereby abusing his human rights? 

[Touti]

FoS can be a difficult concept to grasp for people who were never deprived of it and never knew anyone who has.  We are lucky enough to live in countries where we have rights to almost everything, we take it for granted and the second somebody tells us that we souldn't do this or say that we feel deprived of something.

I do believe in FoS and I also believe in "Freedom to be an ass", I just think that the two shouldn't be confused and when somebody claims FoS for being an ass it's up to all of us to remind him of the difference.

Jerks and assholes do piss me off, really, but I don't think they should be silenced, I think they shouldn't be listened to and if they had no audience they would have nothing to say.

I'm not sure if that's what Jon is referring to but we had this guy here a while back who was really an ass, he jumped on a few people for nothing and I recall he was particularly rude with our sweet Kathy.  I don't remember if I deleted some of his posts or not but I do recall we all politely told him that his this behavior was unacceptable here.  What happened ?  He left the forum........nobody poured fuel on his fires, we were boring, he did complain of his Fos being taken from him and about censorship.  I (we) told him that FoS didn't mean you have the right to insult people and that was the end of it.  He left and never returned.

Bottom line is.....everybody has the right to be an ass but when someone tries to take that right away they shouldn't claim FoS because they were never told they don't have the right to speak, they're only told they shouldn't use their rights to speak to insult other people.

Allright, end of preaching for this week.  No new spammers account created on the forum last night.......I can go back to my hiding now and take care of my stuff.