Topic: YouTube Find ;)

[Tom]

I begin to more and more hate the German GeMA.
They are suing every content provider one by one (currently they are up against youtube). This results in less and less content being available for users that are dumb enough to keep their German IP adress and don't use a proxy located in the USA.
Example: While I'm allowed to watch "The revenge of the cats" the source-video where the lady throws the cat into the bin is not available in my country 

Are you talking about the videos in this post? I have no problem playing them. What would have the GeMA to do with this video? There is no music involved.

[RossRoy]

...So, is this cruelty?

Don't get me started on vets...

(click to show/hide)

One of my colleagues had his dog put down a few weeks ago.

The dog was around 16 years old and was suffering from all kind of problems - from digestive problems (that got better when he started restricting his diet to dried biscuits by the way. go vet!) to articulations problem (he had trouble just standing up, and let's not even talk about stairs).

One day, he came home from work and the dog didn't come to greet him at the door. He started to fear the worse, but turns out the dog was trying to get up, but just couldn't stand up because of the pain. So he took the dog the out to the vet to have it put down.

The vet started offering "care packages" including ceremony, coffins, urns, whatever else they have for pet funerals. And the way he told the story, the vet went berzerk when he said he wanted none of that, that he just wanted the dog put down and taken care.

The vet started going on and on about the cruelty of it all, that the dog deserved a proper funeral and bla bla bla ... I mean, what?

I can understand attachment to animals, how people can develop strong feelings for them. But why humanize them? In most cases, you end up doing more harm that good to the animal.

A dog is a dog and wants to be treated like a dog.

A dog is not your kid, you are his pack leader.

A dog is a meat eating animal. Why feed him vegan food and even add peas and carrots in hos food? (ok let's not start on this too much - reading the ingredients list on just about any animal food is scary)

And that goes for most animals. They are not human. They do not behave like humans.

Is the dog feeling any worse by eating only dried biscuit?

If a cat is overweight, what are you supposed to do, deprive them of food? Put them on a diet? Isn't that even worse?

What's the next step? I can't ride my horses anymore because that's a form a slavery and the horse never gave me his consent?

I can't put my hamster in a cage because it'll make it, sorry, him feel trapped?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Are you talking about the videos in this post? I have no problem playing them. What would have the GeMA to do with this video? There is no music involved.

Not exactly about this one, but about one with obviously the same content. And even this one now is only available if you log in at youtube.
Probably they blocked the other one because someone put music on it.
Fact is: GeMA sued youtube for publishing possibly copyrighted material and not paying the fees to them. Since this day more and more videos are no longer available in Germany, probably a severe case of proactive allegiance.

[Critter]

...So, is this cruelty?

I used to work at a vet clinic and I believe that it was considered some form of cruelty to have a pet that gets to the stage that it is obese, as it usually ends up shortening their life and the qaulity of it. That is extreme cases though, to the point where animals were very unfit and ended up hardly able to move and had no energy. Some could say it's the same for parents who overfeed their children and don't watch their diet and they become obese at a young age, causing many health problems.
The words "animal cruelty" are very hard to place in this subject though. Overfeeding your pet alone I wouldn't consider cruelty, just maybe something you should keep an eye on in the future and try to fix. As for cats I'm not totally sure, I've always had dogs. I would consider someone who overfed a dog and never walked it to be cruel, but you don't really 'walk' cats so I'm not sure how that works as far as exercise goes.

[Najemikon]

Surely cruelty is specifically what the word means? A contrived act to specifically cause pain and suffering. Owners who feed their pets the wrong food do so because their pet demonstrates just how much they like chocolate or Chicken Tikka and they don't realise the effects. That isn't cruelty. It simply ranges from intelligent but wrong to full on stupidity. I can understand a vet using the word "cruel" in the most extreme cases, because it's an emotive word that should jolt the owner into thinking.

As to online bullying, I agree with Jimmy. The Internet as a community has become a lot more savvy over the past few years and so it takes very focused attacks to really hurt someone (such as kids on Facebook), whereas when I started hosting forums, people had no idea how to handle it and could be seriously affected by random comments; I know, because I had to deal with a couple of panicked users. That's strictly for users who share the Internet and have grown to understand how it works, but it still has the power to easily intimidate. We can't excuse this level of reaction because we don't understand the person: maybe she is like us and uses the Internet daily and dismisses all the attention easily, or perhaps she doesn't even have a computer and now lives under her bed shivering in fear going insane, or maybe it doesn't matter and she is intelligent enough to understand either way. We just don't know.

Animal cruelty has always been a big deal for me. I mean, I don't even kill insects if I can help it! But bullying is an even bigger deal and I can't stomach it, even when the victim has clearly caused it.

[Kathy]

Obesity is not healthy for any living thing. But, that vet needs to learn how to communicate better and use a different approach to teach.

For example, he might keep a stock of toys such as feathers on a long stick. He could entice the cat with it, and then give it to the owners explaining how fun exercise might help your cat live longer.

He might also have suggested keeping a cat journal - writing down anything the pet eats. This way on the next visit he might be able to suggest ways to slowly decrease the amount of calories in ways that your cat will not feel deprived while supplying the necessary nutrients to good health.

When his message was given in such a negative way he shut down the ability to teach or communicate and put up a wall that helps no one.

You might want to consider a permanent change of veterinarian service. In either case I would sit down a calmly write a letter to the first vet explaining how his approach impeded his message and suggest ways that he might have used that would have been more effective in helping you and your pet. 

[snowcat]

I will not be returning to that vet.... My cat is not severely overweight... according to there chart it is 1.5 pounds over weight... ok thats alot for a small animal... but

my cat is 13,.... he likes to sleep... its very hard to make a 13 year old cat run around like a kitten...

my cat has half a tin of cat food per day and a handful of biscuits... there is no way im over feeding him... I said before he has always been large... he has a large build but.

I personally do not think I have done anything cruel to my cat ever... well apart from accidentally nudge it a few times when it sleeps on the end of my bed.

...its not like I even treat my cat like a human... it only eats tinned cat food.... mind you, the fussy bugger will only eat the most expensive stuff.

...ugh! anyway... im ranting... it just angered me when he told me I was being cruel... cruelty to an animal is something entirely different in my book!

[Kathy]

Emma, I forgot to tell you about my one cat Maui. She was a feral cat that that roamed the neighborhood. I think someone dumped her because anytime she saw me she would jump in my arms. Of course I had been feeding her but even from the beginning she let me pet her.

So, I took her in to be spayed and and get her shots and any other treatments. She was 9 pounds and amazing enough was completely healthy - no fleas, ear mites or worms. She then became a member of my family.

Now, with having 11 cats at the time I did keep her alone in the bedroom until everyone got used to the sounds and smells. After a few weeks she was part of the pack and everyone (including the new kitten) gets along wonderfully.

I only feed my cats dry food. I keep 14 bowls of food filled and let them help themselves. This was never a problem as all my cats are in fine shape and no one was overweight...until Maui.

I don't know if she is afraid of where her next meal is coming from, and so is stocking up, but this 9 pound feral cat ballooned up to 19 pounds. I am not going to change the way I feed the other cats so I have been trying to increase her exercise. She likes the laser pointer but so do the other cats so its hard to get her to really work out. She has lost 2 pounds over the last 6 months but she is still obese.

My hope is that she will come to realize that food will always be there and that she eventually eats normally. If not, then I will have one fat happy cat.

Cruel? I don't think that word applies to either you or me irregardless of what anyone else says. Your elderly pet is enjoying the good life don't you worry about what one insensitive vet said.

[Jimmy]

Basically you believe that the all the internet attention is overreacting to the situation, and I believe that you are overreacting to the internet attention. We should just leave it at that.

Sorry it won't work this time... Why because I ain't overeactting at all. It's the big problem with the internet generation... If you think it's ok to publish the adress of someone, smash her house's windows, stalking her, make threats for a cat (but it can be apply to many other situations) your generation have a serious problem. Will you be happy if you read in the newspapers that someone kill her? The internet generation had a lot of difficulties to understand that when they wrote on the web about someone this person is a real human beings and not an amalgame of letters... Not that it surprise me anyway since most of them didn't learn what is respect and were never discipline by their parents. I've deal with enough of them to know how they are... to make it scarier the next batch of kids is even worst.

Maybe you should ask to Phoebe Prince, Megan Meier, Allem Halkic and Alex Moore if internet harassment is just a joke and had no meaning... Oh, sorry you can't ask it to any of them since they all kill themselves because of internet harassment...

I don't overreact, but if overreacting is caring about other human beings I'm more than happy to get that label.

[snowcat]

Emma, I forgot to tell you about my one cat Maui. She was a feral cat that that roamed the neighborhood. I think someone dumped her because anytime she saw me she would jump in my arms. Of course I had been feeding her but even from the beginning she let me pet her.

So, I took her in to be spayed and and get her shots and any other treatments. She was 9 pounds and amazing enough was completely healthy - no fleas, ear mites or worms. She then became a member of my family.

Now, with having 11 cats at the time I did keep her alone in the bedroom until everyone got used to the sounds and smells. After a few weeks she was part of the pack and everyone (including the new kitten) gets along wonderfully.

I only feed my cats dry food. I keep 14 bowls of food filled and let them help themselves. This was never a problem as all my cats are in fine shape and no one was overweight...until Maui.

I don't know if she is afraid of where her next meal is coming from, and so is stocking up, but this 9 pound feral cat ballooned up to 19 pounds. I am not going to change the way I feed the other cats so I have been trying to increase her exercise. She likes the laser pointer but so do the other cats so its hard to get her to really work out. She has lost 2 pounds over the last 6 months but she is still obese.

My hope is that she will come to realize that food will always be there and that she eventually eats normally. If not, then I will have one fat happy cat.

Cruel? I don't think that word applies to either you or me irregardless of what anyone else says. Your elderly pet is enjoying the good life don't you worry about what one insensitive vet said.

I agree Kathy... I weighed my cat... hes around 15 pounds.

Ive tried everything to make him exercise... He used to love to chase string so id run around the house with a piece of string... he just watches me doit now lol.... and he also used to love it when I threw little toy mice at him and he would catch them... but alas he doesn't wanna do that any more... Hes a happy cat there is no denying that... and, if hes happy.... does it really matter?

I mean.... Id rather die happy and fat then sad and skinny lol

[Kathy]

I see and agree with most of your points Jimmy. And, I am not excusing the behavior of those who are verbally abusive on the internet. But, this is mostly just talk and few people will actually act out on their verbal rantings.

But, this woman actually acted out on her psychologically sick urges. The type of psychotic behavior this woman exhibited makes me believe that she has done much worse things in the past. Almost without exception this is a pattern of behavior that escalates and one can only imagine what she has done before without getting caught.

There is not excuse for what happened to the people who you listed but no one has to be connected to the internet and listen to the rantings of others. Bullying, harassment and suicide are all too common occurrences even outside of the internet world. Strict parental supervision on internet usage might have prevented someone from committing suicide but not necessarily.

There are much deeper issues in those types of situations. Suicide is all too common a solution for many and has nothing to do with internet harassment. And, not to make these deaths seem less devastating than they are, the numbers of deaths related to internet use is minuscule if taken in context.  

Finally, and my last public point on this topic (I will communicate via pm if anyone wishes), is I hope that this woman gets long term psychiatric help. She has demonstrated through her actions that she needs it.

[Tom]

Are you talking about the videos in this post? I have no problem playing them. What would have the GeMA to do with this video? There is no music involved.

Not exactly about this one, but about one with obviously the same content. And even this one now is only available if you log in at youtube.

If you can only watch it if you are logged in, then it has nothing to do with copyright. It just means that some users flagged it for having inappropriate content and you need to be logged in to verify that you are over 18. If it is for copyright reasons it will say so.

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

If you can only watch it if you are logged in, then it has nothing to do with copyright. It just means that some users flagged it for having inappropriate content and you need to be logged in to verify that you are over 18. If it is for copyright reasons it will say so.

Possibly, but try to watch this with a German IP-adress

EDIT: Not sure if I even get the correct video#. So here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frbrnIHha_M&feature=fvwk

[Critter]

I will not be returning to that vet.... My cat is not severely overweight... according to there chart it is 1.5 pounds over weight... ok thats alot for a small animal... but

my cat is 13,.... he likes to sleep... its very hard to make a 13 year old cat run around like a kitten...

my cat has half a tin of cat food per day and a handful of biscuits... there is no way im over feeding him... I said before he has always been large... he has a large build but.

I personally do not think I have done anything cruel to my cat ever... well apart from accidentally nudge it a few times when it sleeps on the end of my bed.

...its not like I even treat my cat like a human... it only eats tinned cat food.... mind you, the fussy bugger will only eat the most expensive stuff.

...ugh! anyway... im ranting... it just angered me when he told me I was being cruel... cruelty to an animal is something entirely different in my book!

 

After reading this I have no doubt that your vet overreacted. Sure it's bad to have a pet that is overweight if it's a kitten or a young cat, but 13 years old! Everyone knows that old animals are just like old humans. They like to spend their days just resting and sleeping the days away.
My dog himself is about 15 years old and I swear he sometimes sleeps 20 of the 24 hours in a day. I do manage to take him for one or sometimes two walks most days but the fact is that it's just hard to get old animals to exercise a lot, in the same way it's hard to get elderly people to.
After hearing that I think it's good you switched vets, old animals often get a little chubby in their later years. I think it would only be considered 'cruel' as such if you had a very obese kitten, or young cat.

[Jimmy]

Finally, and my last public point on this topic (I will communicate via pm if anyone wishes), is I hope that this woman gets long term psychiatric help. She has demonstrated through her actions that she needs it.

As usual Kathy you read my mind and came exactly with the opinion I had
Glad to see that some here are able to use a mature way to analyse when dealing with real event