Topic: Bones - Spoiler

[Piffi]

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Well, i'm still upset with you. But IF you would say that Bones is a better show overall. Well, get well soon and the best of luck to ya!
Ok, lets be serious for a minute here. Lets not take anything away from Bones and what it once were. Hey look, its going in to its 10th season. The exact same number of seasons Friends had. Its double figures. Even Seinfeld didnt get to 10. They had 9? So, they have done something correct in its runtime. And as i've said before Bones from S01 - S06 (where she got pregnant) it was prolly my favorite show on tv. But after they slept together (something they screwed us fans of!) 1st and biggest mistake right there. And the "chase" was over, it got boring, and the drama was really out there. The stories was just not good. Look at Castle after 4 seasons with 'chasing' they finally slept together and got together aswell. But thats just a great example to how to make a great tv-show AFTER they got together aswell. People shouldnt be so afraid of the this fucking "Moonlight curse" i dont see why at all. it was so many reason why 'Moonlighting' went belly up. And its not because Bruce Willis and this other main character (forgot her name right now) got together. There was even personal problemes between the two backstage (after what i've read) But after S07 (Bones) Hanson & Co made a first class fuck up. And they have just continued down that same road. Its a shame when you see what it once were.

Ah, there.. So over to the black dude and the last episode. Yeah, i think the black dude was\is the boss of Booth. Thats what it been hinted too anyways. And when all this shit happend on the hearing now (where they turned on him. For killing a american in Pakistan) It was him (the black) who told him that he had to suspend him etc. And at the hospital he was a changed man. So i think he's behind it all. I think he will be involved in atleast a few more episodes before they catch him.

[Dragonfire]

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Unhuh...ok.  I'm almost kind of upset with myself...    Maybe it helped that I went into watching Bones basically expecting it to suck and I expected so much more from Castle.  I really tried not to, but my expectations got to high for Castle.

That is very true.  Not a lot of shows make it to 10 years.  I had issues earlier in the run of the show than you did - Angela and Hodgins...the complete bullshit of the 100th episode..  I was happy they got together finally, but agree they did it wrong, mostly out of fear of the "Moonlighting Curse" - more on that in a minute.  I know I read an interview with Hanson or someone back when they put them together.  Something about how they knew it has been an issue with other shows when characters have gotten together, so they decided to skip over that...jump forward in the next season to they are all committed to each other and she's ..like 6 months pregnant or whatever it was.  They deliberately skipped over possibly the most important stage of the relationship because they didn't want to deal with it.  Which then left them having stupid disagreements to add the tension that they should have already dealt with....or that shouldn't have been an issue at all.  Her thinking she should get to make all decisions about the baby because she makes more money?  Please.  Nonsense.  Then they made matters so much worse with the whole Pelante storyline..framing Bones and causing her to run off with Christine.  Stupid stupid stupid.  Although, now that I think about it, this finale has Booth being set up for something he didn't do...so...really not that different in that respect.  It was just executed better.  Castle did the whole developing relationship so much better overall, and they have shown that the "Moonlighting Curse" is a bunch of crap - though at times it seems like Marlowe is still a bit afraid of it. 

I saw the part after that trial thing when the one senator went after Booth.  When they were outside I think it was, and the black guy came up to him and talked to him briefly...said something about he didn't know where that came from..hold tight - or something like that - and things would work out.  Then he was in Booth's hospital room there at the end saying Booth shot FBI agents...just seems obvious that he is the one behind it all.  Unless the real bad guy got in there to change stuff at the house after Booth was taken out.  Hmm..maybe they were a team of corrupt FBI agents.  Hmmm.  Something to ponder.

About the "Moonlight Curse".  It's a bunch of bullshit and just an excuse.  I think some writers came up with that as an excuse to string fans along for years..and to cover up the fact that they don't have a freaking clue how to write a normal, functioning relationship.  I watched Moonlighting when it originally aired - I was probably a tad young for the show at that point, but I watched it.  I watched as the mess happened and saw what had been a really good, entertaining show implode.  David and Maddie - the character's names (Cybil Shepard played the woman) - were never really together.  They didn't start a relationship.  It was basically one night, the next damn day they turn on each other for stupid shit, but they still jump each other a few more times.  They fought over the stupidest things, and the ways of keeping them apart got more asinine as the weeks passed.   There was supposed to be problems between Willis and Shepard, especially once his movie career took off with Die Hard - he was still tied to Moonlighting at that point if I remember right.  Shepard got pregnant in real life with twins.  I can't remember if it was technically considered a high risk pregnancy, but she had to cut back on work because of it and she eventually ended up on bed rest.  So that caused stupid crap to cover the fact that she was gone.  Then they had Maddie marry some guy she knew just a few weeks.  Oh and she was pregnant.  I'm thinking that marriage didn't really last, but I can't remember now.  I think I blocked more of that out as it got more and more asinine.  At one point, there was an episode focused on the unborn baby..sort of showed the baby.  Finally answered that David was in fact the father - Maddie claimed it was the new hubby, but the timing made it possible to be David's.  The episode ended with Maddie having a miscarriage..baby like floating up to heaven or something and told by someone - guardian angel or something - that he was better off not being born because of how screwed up David and Maddie were.  The dumbass stories done once they had David and Maddie jump into bed are what did Moonlighting in, not the fact that they got together.  They technically weren't together.  One night and a few ..well...booty calls do not a relationship make.  The fact that the writers for other shows point to what happened to Moonlighting as a reason to keep other characters apart just ticks me off.  It makes me think the writers who point to that didn't actually watch the show..they just knew a few things, like David and Maddie hooked up, then the show went to shit - never mind that the shit stories are what did, not them sleeping together.  It is just an excuse used by writers who either aren't good enough to write relationships or are scared of it for some reason.  It can be done.  Bones has done reasonably well - though certain things could have been handled better.  Castle has been excellent.  Even with the finale, that is a bump in the road - a bump that ticks me off, but still just a bump.   

Hmmm...now I'm thinking I just might write up something for my blog about the "Moonlighting Curse". 

[Piffi]

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Hehe. Yeah i think he was\is the top dog. I think he is the boss for Booth & Co.. But as Booth said many times the last few episodes there is someone in the FBI who's dirty. And Booth requested the people around him not to say anything before finding out who it was. And i think the big boss is behind it all. I think he's the dirty one. And now that Booth is getting closer he will eliminate Booth and Bones before they catch him or they. I guess if they play it right it could be somewhat interesting. But you never know with Hanson i guess. And when it comes to the 100th episode. I dont remember what happend in that episode at all. Guess i blocked it out? Care to tell what happend since you hate it? And the Angie & Hodgins saga was weird. But they are married now and have a son. And someone also said something about Bones and Booth getting together in S06 was "only" because she got pregnant in real life. And they couldnt hide it. Well, thats just bullshit! Yes, she was pregnant in real life. But so was Claire Danes in Homeland aswell. They did a great job not showing it. So it was possible to do it if they wanted it. But for me they should have done more about getting hooked up. And specially showing more of the early stages in the relationship. But hey, i guess done is done. And i didnt like how they fixed it. And for the whole 'Moonlight curse' i have to be honest and admit that i havent seen much of it really. When it originally aired i was way to young to watch it on tv. Seen something here and there. But not the whole thing. I didnt know they "only" hooked up now and then. I thought they were a couple after what i've been reading in interviews and stuff. And since they blame it all on the "curse" And "alot of people" says that 'Moonlighting' went belly up because of the two leads got together. What do you think of that? Any truth in it? But i also heard that Bruce and her (forgot her name again) had real problmes with each other behind the scenes etc. But if it is like you just say, why do "other people" blame the moonlight curse for not getting people together? And i just have to say about Castle, they have done a great job relationshipwise. But the 'bump' you are talking about doesnt have anything with 'Moonlighting Curse'. You are just pissed because Rick's car was on fire!

[Dragonfire]

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With what I have seen of the last few episodes and what happened in the finale, the only thing that really makes sense is that the one FBI guy - Booth's boss, we think - is the mole...bad agent..whatever.  However, like you said, with Hanson you just never know.  If there is a way to screw up this story, the first decent one they have done in who knows how long, Hanson will find it.  I have complete faith in his ability to screw up.

The 100th episode...I had blocked out most of for a long time.  Was last year before I realized what happened earlier in the season since I saw it on TNT without realizing it was the episode.  Most of the episode has Bones and Booth telling Sweets about the first time they worked together.  All this crap comes out...kissing...they almost had sex..then she punched him or something and they hated each other by the end of the case..then it was a while before they worked together again I think.  So once they get done talking to Sweets, they are walking somewhere..maybe by one of the monuments in DC...I don't remember - like I said, I have tried to block this nonsense out.  Booth finally admits that he has feelings for her and wants a relationship.  He says he wants to spend the rest of his life with her.  Then she is all like I can't take the chance..what if it doesn't work...something like that.  So then, like a minute after he said he wanted to spend his life with her, he says I won't wait for you and I'm going to find someone else, get married, and have kids.  Then, if I remember correctly, he walked away.  So.  That pissed me off.  It sure as hell was not the moment I had been waiting - like 6 years at point..maybe 5..whatever - to see. 

I do think that Hanson would have dragged out stuff between them longer if she hadn't gotten pregnant.  I know shows can work around it..but it can cause more complications in filming.  And some people in the industry don't think it can be done believably even though some shows have managed decently enough. 

David and Maddie weren't a true couple.  They just had sex a few times...in between ever increasing fights...that got nasty.  It wasn't little spats about silly stuff..they were getting ugly at times.  I know a lot of people have said the show went to crap because David and Maddie got together, but they really didn't.  The writer's never let them truly be together as a couple or try to be a couple.  I think the Moonlighting writers ...showrunners..started spinning that story that people lost interest just because David and Maddie were together to cover up their colossal screw up.  They excuses they came up with to keep them fighting and apart got more ludicrous by the minute.  Though making Maddie have a miscarriage and trying to make it a lighthearted, fun episode may have been the worst.  I don't for sure of course, but as far as I'm concerned, people pull the Moonlighting Curse as an excuse to jerk the audience around for year after year..teasing just a bit and then yanking it all away...then when fans are unhappy, they point to what happened to Moonlighting as the reason for why the characters can't be together.  Good writers can write relationships.  I think the writers and showrunners who point to the Moonlighting curse are just not talented enough to write a relationship. 

I do think the relationship has been done very well on Castle.  Yes I am unhappy about that ending..and it does smack of something that other shows have pulled because of the Moonlighting curse.

[Piffi]

Uhm, from what you are saying about the 100th. I have to be honest and say i remember only bits of that. I remember he (Booth) told her (Bones) that he loved her or whatever and thing went shitty after that. But i dont even remember wich season and episode in the season it was. Season 6 was it? But dont remember anything else about that. Maby i'll check it out (now that they are together) If you remember the season? I am almost 100% sure that if Emily didnt get pregnat Hanson would wait alot longer before (IF) he put them together. I guess they could have worked around that she was pregnat, but didnt. And i guess.. We just have to deal what has happened. Or HOW it happend. It is interesting what you say about Moonlight. But after what you said, not sure if i will give it a shot tho.

[Dragonfire]

Yes it definitely went to shit...immediately after he told her his feelings.  It was horrible.
I'm not sure which season it was...let me think a minute.
Season 9 just ended...season 8 they were together all year...then that crap with Pelante making Booth call off the wedding.
Season 7...when Christine was born..then Bones taking off with Christine at the end of the season because of Pelante..so must have been late in season 6.  I don't know for sure because I all but stopped watching after that 100th episode, but I think there were just a handful more episodes that season.  Maybe.  Title was something like the End in the Beginning...Beginning in the End..something like that.

I am almost 100% sure that Hanson would have waited longer too.  Hell, if she hadn't gotten pregnant, they might still be dragging out all the will they or won't they shit.  I swear I remember reading or hearing in an interview a few seasons into the show that Hanson and even Boreanaz - no clue how to spell his name - didn't want them to get together until the last season..if not the very last episode.  I really don't think I would have stuck with the show if they had drug it out longer than they did.  I'm fine with them being together, though I agree that it could have been handled better.

Moonlighting started off really good.  Really good.  Very entertaining, creative episodes.  Then the writers let David and Maddie have one night...and it went straight to shit.  I honestly don't know what season that happened in..I can't even remember how long the show lasted.  If you watched up till the point they got together, it was good.  Then just pretend that is the finale.  I did think about doing that and getting the first season or 2...or 3..up until the disaster started..but I can't unsee or forget the shit storm.

[Piffi]

Hm, so how many seasons are they of Moonlighting? Maby i'll check out the first two (?) seasons if i find it cheap somewhere? I just heard all (and read) about Bruce Willis and the other actress. And the Die Hard movies was taking off etc.

And i just checked out the 100th Bones episode! It was in season 5. "The Parts in the Sum of the Whole" was the name of the episode and it was S05E16. If you want to check it out again! I did. And thats fucked up. Lets be honest. But "they tried to fix" some of it a year later. Even tho i think Hanson & Co was kinda "forced" to do that. And speaking of Christine.. Have you seen how big she's gotten lately? She looks more than 3 years old if you ask me. And she doesnt even look like the same "actress" in all the episodes she's in. Do they use different babys? If they do, not good!

[Dragonfire]

I honestly don't remember how many seasons of Moonlighting there were.  There did seem to be issues off set between Bruce Willis and Cybil Shepard.  If I remember correctly, he was still doing Moonlighting when the first Die Hard was made...and made him an instant action star.  Shepard may have been a bit...irked about that. 

Season 5?  Oh that's right...that's what I thought at first briefly..then did my thinking...forgot about the fact that they got together at the very end of season 6...just over a year after this massive screw up.  Episode 16?  So that left more to that season than I was thinking.  But like I said, I was pretty much done after that.  There are still some of those episodes that I haven't watched - after that massive screw up.  And it was so screwed up - or fucked up as you put - that before that episode aired, Hanson talked it up about it being what the fans have been waiting to see..  which it sort of was.  There was that kiss from their first case...but then they both turned into assholes.. In the current time line, Booth finally admits his feelings..she throws them back in his face, and he's all like ok well I'm moving on like a minute later.  He poured out his feelings..made it clear he wanted to spend the rest of his life with her.  Yes it sucks that she reacted out of fear, but for him to do that complete 180 was bullshit.  And that was NOT what I had waited years to see.  Hell even the kiss stuff sucked because of how it was done.  Yup...Hanson pretty much only did it because she was pregnant and he decided the easiest way to deal with it was write the pregnancy into the show.  Which ok..fine.  But he did a piss poor job of doing it.  They could have let them get together without the baby..like you said, they could work around the pregnancy.  But whatever. 

I don't remember seeing Christine for a while.  She may be bigger than she technically should be - shows have been known to do that.  Aging kids faster..though the soap operas are the worst.  One day a kid is like 5 playing on swings, and the next day she is 18 and chasing after an older guy. So Christine being a year or so older isn't as big of a jump...  Anyway, not only don't I remember seeing her much this season, I don't remember them even mentioning her much either...except when Bones wanted to outlaw the birthday party.  Hmmm...that is probably the last time I saw her.  She did seem bigger.  It is like they like the writers just want to forget about her now...send her off to daycare or she's in bed when they are at home.  All that.  They have basically done the same thing with Michael Vincent.  I think the first time I saw him in ages was when Angela and Hodgins watched Christine when Booth and Bones were on their honeymoon.

[Piffi]

Hehe, yeah. It was in S05 midseason. And it sucked. But we agree on that. And we agree on Hanson is known to do fucked up to the show aswell. But anyhow. After seeing that episode i got in the mood for some older bones. So i think i will start rewatching Bones aswell. S01-S05 maby? And when it comes to Christine i dont know if it is the same "actress" from time to time. We dont see her that often anymore but when we do. She's gotten alot older and from one episode to the other she doesnt look like herself. But i guess i'm wrong

[Dragonfire]

Yes we do agree on that.  Sucked big time.  And I don't know if anyone can screw up a show or storyline like Hanson.  He's gifted in that.  Oh wait...the idiots who did How I Met Your Mother out Hansoned Hanson.

I have seen some of the older episodes on TNT.  I do like them.  Though when seeing some of those, and then seeing how Bones was later...like in season 5 when it went straight to shit in like .5 seconds (  ) it seems, at least to me, like she ...well...regressed a bit.  Yes she was still...more...hmmm....practical I suppose you could say about relationships, but she was more willing to be in one.  Or even just hook up at times like she did with that one guy that was her former professor or something...who then turned around and used what she told him against her in court later.  And there was Sully or whatever his name was.  And when she was with him, she was willing to ..well..use vacation time for a vacation.  By season 5 - heck even in 4 at Christmas time - she only talked about using it for going on digs or whatever. 

I have considered watching some of my Bones DVDS....and after a certain point...well for me, it would be when Angela and Hodgins break up - I think I will just selectively watch certain episodes. 

I don't know if it is the same child - or children since they frequently use twins - playing Christine.  It is possible she had a bit of a growth spurt...or they may have made her a little older.

[Dragonfire]

I read something about the next season of Bones a day or so ago. 

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Booth is getting a younger protege at the FBI...it sounded like he would sort of be training this younger agent.  So the mess from the finale must get cleaned up pretty quick if they are already talking about casting of the new character.  So given Hanson's track record, since he did good with the finale, he'll screw up the resolution.  Hell, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if when the show comes back, they do another stupid time jump and everything is back to normal and we'll only get little bits here and there on how they got out of that mess.

I've seen the first season again..and a lot of season 2 from the rerurns on TNT.  The show was much more enjoyable in the first few seasons.  Bones wasn't so ....aggravating with how she treats people.

[Piffi]

Hehe, i read that too. Aaaand i dont know what to think about that. I'll be the first to admit it. I liked the seasonfinale. Good job. Best episode in ages! But with how things ended, and with that spoiler. Well, i'm not sure. And Hanson & Co is known to make the time jumps. Like when Bones did Booth, and swoop she's pregnant. Fast forward 6 months. Not cool dude! And you know what? When it comes to Bones, i'm just taking it one episode a time. This is the 10th season (!!) Wich is fucking amazing. Its the same amount as Friends. Maby the greatest show ever made. Seindfeld had 9 seaons. House had 8. All the credit to them. But Bones from S01 - S05 was some of the best tv made at that time. Was my favorite show. But then they fucked it up. And i've been very vocal about that. Look at Castle how they should have done it! But its their last season, so when i have watched every episode of the last 9 seasons i have to watch the series last season. What about you Marie?

[Dragonfire]

I'm not sure what to think either.  At this point, with all the other stupid crap that Hanson has pulled, there is very little he could do with the new season to surprise me with how he decides to deal with the situation.  Hanson has embraced the time jumps before.  Look back when Bones went on the run...the new season picked up like 5 months later or something.  I'm not sure if they did a time jump last year too or not.  I didn't watch much of the first few episodes last year because of how irritated I was over the Pelante crap.  Hanson seems to like the time jump stuff.  So I wouldn't be surprised if that happens again.  I think I'd be more surprised if there wasn't one. 

I'll probably still watch this next season.  It just isn't a priority like it use to be in the early seasons.  I still haven't fully watched the last two episodes of the season and I'm not that ...interested I guess.  I'll get to them eventually.

[Piffi]

Hehe, well. Bones isnt a priority for me either anymore. It can go a few days from the episodes airs before i watch it. But when it comes to Castle i watch it usually when it airs. But it was that with Bones in the early seasons. But since i've been loyal to them in the past 9 seasons, i just have to watch the last season of the whole series. Just to see what they make of the whole mess. But i fear that they will find a way to fuck it up. And if someone can fuck it up, it is Hanson & Co!
But yeah, i'm wondering about the spoiler we was talking about. Will it be for the whole season? Or just a few episodes? Well, knowing Hanson i feel that a jealousy angle is coming up real soon :\ . I hope i'm wrong. But ehm. Lets just hope we go a season without a new serialkiller or any crap that they dont know how to pull off.
I have watched all of the episodes, but there are maby just 1 of the whole S09 i will rewatch. With Castle is the other way around. 1 i WONT rewatch. How things changes huh? But kudos to bones for what they have done tho. 10 seasons is great anyways.

[Dragonfire]

When Bones started, I watched it as it aired.  Which is what I do with Castle now.  A few times I missed the live one because of work, but I watched later that night usually. 

I'll keep watching too...just to see how they do stuff...and what Hanson screws up next.  I have no doubt that he'll screw something up.  He always does.  That is the only thing he's consistent on....screwing up stuff. 

I don't know if it supposed to be the whole season or not....adding a new regular character could be tricky.  He may not fit in that well, which would screw up the dynamic.  Kind of like that know it all ass intern.  He just doesn't fit.  I did see his first episode again a few weeks ago...he wasn't as bad then.  He's just a huge arrogant jerk now.  The show doesn't need another jerk character...though knowing Hanson, it wouldn't surprise me if he does create a new jerk character.  Some kind of jealousy crap could be coming up.  Oh yes...please Hanson, don't try to do a new serial killer.  You can't do it.  Just stop already. 

There really wasn't anything in season 9 that I care if I see again or not.  I didn't even watch the wedding episode again.  I'll probably eventually see some of them again when I catch reruns on TNT...but I'm not going out of my way to look for them or anything.  I doubt I'll get the DVD set.  I just don't care about having them anymore. 

There are just a handful of Castle episodes that I don't care for and either don't watch at all, or fast forward past the stuff I don't like.  I haven't decided what it will be for last episode of season 6 yet.  I still don't want to rewatch it at this point.  Maybe after I see how they fix the stuff I will..or maybe I won't.  Or maybe I'll watch some and fast forward past other parts.