Topic: Region free Blu-ray player; order online?

[Achim]

You should get a region free BD player, Achim. Then you don't have to worry.

Mine is an Oppo, which was rather expensive, but there are a lot cheaper models available that you can get modded nowadays. The only thing to remember is that they cannot determine region automatically for BDs (only for DVDs), so you have to switch region with the remote.

Well, turns out I might be in the market for a region free Blu-ray player after all. I'd be happy to freely order from the UK when needed (like that Dracula disc) or even just play the handful of region B discs I already accidentally obtained.

Pioneer seems to make them, and Oppo obviously. Sony and some others too, but I am not sure I want those brands.

On some website I found the BDP-103 from Oppo to be a current model and was priced at US$650 there, which would be near the upper limit of my budget.

Now, to my surprise it appears that region free players are not freely sold in Taiwan (go figure ). But I can order, I guess...? Amazon however does not ship such products to here.

Thanks for your patience, I come to the point now:
Any of you know of an online store that will ship such products world wide?

Any comments on current player models? The Oppo mentioned above, Pioneer, others? (I do not need/want 3D.)

[Jimmy]

Never heard a bad word about that company, so you can take a look if you wish. Just be sure to read correctly to not purchase a DVD region free blu-ray player only.

Mine is chinese, but it was a Walmart Canada exclusive and was never available for purchase online...

[Eommen]

Here are some sites I know from the Netherlands:
http://www.stegen.com/index.php
http://www.jvbdigital.nl/jvb.asp

But since shipping to Taiwan is basically shipping to the other side of the world (literally), you may want to check via their support first. Also, check voltage and connector (standard Netherlands is 230V).

I ordered once from Stegen (an Oppo) and it was delivered fine. That was in the Netherlands, send and receive. But I cannot give any garantees, I am just an end user... At Stegen, just look beyond Oppo and there are cheaper models on offer.

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

You may ask your family to order you one of these: http://www.amazon.de/s/ref=sr_nr_n_2?rh=n%3A359542011%2Ck%3Amultiregion+blu+ray+player&keywords=multiregion+blu+ray+player&ie=UTF8&qid=1366237739&rnid=1703609031.

Would be a nice welcome present for your next stay too 

[DJ Doena]

I'm surprised that they exist at all.

I thought the industry had "learned" from their DVD region mistake and made sure that you only get a Blu-ray player manufacturing license if you do not circumvent the region code query of the disc.

[Achim]

Thanks for all the comments! Based on those I did some more research and found out:

I really like the idea of getting an Oppo. Many websites seem to mention those as top-of-the-line, including the new 2013 model I mentioned. Also Gunnar has an Oppo, like Eric and I believe Blubeaver likes those Oppos as well. They are more expensive though...

I finally found out, that Amazon does not ship the Pioneer to Taiwan, they would however ship the Oppo . BUT, the shipping costs are very high (25% of purchase price!), I guess due to custom clearance. That then matches the price found on other websites (the $650 I mentioned yesterday and Jimmy's link as the same to that).

But the best was, I ended up talking to a friend about this and finally found that I can even order them in Taiwan! I didn't really think of that too much before, as I cannot read those local online retailer websites... Well, I still want to read that it can actually play all regions, that sentence Jimmy mentioned "DVD region free blu-ray player" could be an advertisement ploy (unfortunately that is what more or less happened last time ). If I end up ordering in Taiwan, it would still be the same price, but I might be better off guarantee-wise...


Thanks again for all your comments.


EDIT:
Hmmm, some further reading showed me, that the BDP-103 is not natively region free. It would have to be ordered from a site like Jimmy linked to, apparently they add a special chip to it that makes it region free (supporting Karsten's comment at the same time, to some degree). At the very least this would explain why the offers I saw here in Taiwan (online) made no reference to the regions. That would also explain why Amazon would ship the (region locked) Oppo but not the (region free) Pioneer...? Then again, they ship a region free Sharp (BD-AMS20)

Also, the price at Jimmy's link is not the same. It's higher, which simply means you are paying for they chip they implant into the unit... The listed price was also before shipping, so the fee for the chip is about $140.


The voltage is indeed an issue, as Taiwan has 110V, like the US. Although many machines seem to cover 100-240V these days, so I'll have a look at the sites Eric linked to later.

[GSyren]

I was under the impression that no BD players are region free from the factory, but rather that all that are offered as region free are modded with 3rd party chips. I know my Oppo is.

[Eommen]

My Oppo's modification is also as GSyren says. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Region_codes the player checks the disk for the region. Depending on the hardware and firmware inside the player this may be circumvented easily or less easily. After all, many hardware engineers are just like real people  and dislike the region coding. Company directors are only interested in sales. So as long as the ways to circumvent region coding are not too trivial, modifications are hard to stop by the region code proponents. After all, the player complied with the BluRay specs when it left the factory.
On a similar note, Older Oppo's and their firmware could directly play from iso-files. It wasn't an advertised feature, apparently a 'left over' from the design stage of the firmware (yeah right...) as the company claimed. Pressure from the 'industry' made Oppo remove the feature in later firmware releases.

[Eommen]

I'm surprised that they exist at all.

I thought the industry had "learned" from their DVD region mistake and made sure that you only get a Blu-ray player manufacturing license if you do not circumvent the region code query of the disc.

With a DVD, the disk encoded software queries the player for its region at disk start-up. Making the player region free is basically fooling the disk (see the English Wikipedia article on DVD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_region_code ).
With a BluRay, the player queries the BR-disk for its region and (of course) is supposed to abide by it. So if you add a bit of circuitry between the player's CPU and the chip(s) having the factory region code, and that circuitry artificially aligns the player's region to the desired region, "you're there". By "artificially" I mean that the BR regioncode of the player can be altered as many times as you like. The BluRay content has no region checks etc; they've learned from the RCE debacle.

Now many BR hardware hacks do not switch BR-player region code automatically. Apparently the 'industry' requires that the player's firmware checks multiple regions to root out these adaptation schemes. So yes, one must set region purposefully on the so-called multi-region players.

[GSyren]

With a DVD, the disk encoded software queries the player for its region at disk start-up. Making the player region free is basically fooling the disk (see the English Wikipedia article on DVD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_region_code ).
With a BluRay, the player queries the BR-disk for its region and (of course) is supposed to abide by it.

Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that it was the other way around. With DVD the player asks the disc, so it's easy to modify the player to just ignore this step. With BD, the disc software queries the player, so the player has to return the right answer, and since the player doesn't know what the discs expect, you have to preset the player to the correct region before you insert the disc. At least that's the explanation I got for why you can get automatic region free DVD players, but not BD players.

[Eommen]

With a DVD, the disk encoded software queries the player for its region at disk start-up. Making the player region free is basically fooling the disk (see the English Wikipedia article on DVD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_region_code ).
With a BluRay, the player queries the BR-disk for its region and (of course) is supposed to abide by it.

Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that it was the other way around. With DVD the player asks the disc, so it's easy to modify the player to just ignore this step. With BD, the disc software queries the player, so the player has to return the right answer, and since the player doesn't know what the discs expect, you have to preset the player to the correct region before you insert the disc. At least that's the explanation I got for why you can get automatic region free DVD players, but not BD players.

As for BluRay, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Region_codes , especially where it says "Blu-ray region codes are verified only by the player software". Of course it is always the CPU of the player that executes code, whether it is its firmware or any instructions on disk. Since RCE failed on DVD's, I think it was clear to the industry that any coding on the disk would ultimately be circumvented. BluRay players are a different thing, as it is built-in that they need a firmware refresh from time to time because new decryption keys are issued all the time. This would make any hacking very tiresome as it would need to be repeated with every new firmware release of the manufacturer. As I explained in my response to DJ Doena, it is easier to leave the disk and the firmware for what it is and to force yourself inbetween the CPU and the memory chip that holds the original region code.
As for DVD, see the aforementioned http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_region_code, especially the RCE part. It is true that for early region free DVD players it was simply a case for the firmware of the player and of the (built-in) reader not to scan for the code. RCE changed that.

[Jimmy]

I was under the impression that no BD players are region free from the factory.

Mine is region free from the factory. No modification was made in it by me or the store who sold it. It is region selectable not region free pre se, but it is the same thing except that I've to do it manually every time for non zone A disc.

[DJ Doena]

Unlike DVD region codes, Blu-ray region codes are verified only by the player software, not by the optical drive's firmware.

Yeah but the player software is actually on the disc. It's all that Java executable that's running on the BR disc. Note the follow-up

not by the optical drive's firmware

Here's the comparison to the DVD RC:

Usually a configuration flag is set in each player's firmware at the factory. This flag holds the region number that the machine is allowed to play.

And

Most freeware and open source DVD players, such as VLC, ignore region coding.

So I stand by what I said: With DVD it's the player who decides if it wants to play a disc. With Blu-ray it's the software on the disc that asks the player and only continues if the player returns the correct answer.

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

With Blu-ray it's the software on the disc that asks the player and only continues if the player returns the correct answer.

That's exactly how the simple variant of "Region Free"-cracks is working.
Simply restart the disc (max. 3 times) with varying answers until it responds.

[Achim]

Yes, that is what I found: The players leave the factory region locked; with the exception of Jimmy's and a few rare others apparently. It's those "special" retailers that add the unlock chip (software unlocks could be overwritten by the next firmware update) and then sell the units on for a, obviously, higher price. That is why the $500 Oppo ends up costing $650 when selecting the unlocked version. In my case I have to add shipping costs of $100-150 (I still feel surprised that I have not yet been able to locate region free players in Taiwan...)


What confused me at first was that Amazon was offering some region free players, some of which they would ship internationally and other they don't. Depends on the manufacturers as well, I guess.


Today I found there is actually an unlock kit available for my current machine, sold from JB Digital (the same company Eric had already linked). But not only have I know idea what such a DIY kit requires me to do (leaving me concerned in that department), it is also rather expensive with $170 for the kit plus another $90 for shipping. At such price I might just as well spend some more and get the Oppo.


I have not entirely decided how much money the step up to a region free blu-ray player is worth for me.