Topic: Jackie Brown (1997)

[Antares]

But I guess it was before it was chic to remake foreign films and still be allowed to put your own mark on them, like Scorcese did with The Departed.

But Tarantino didn't remake City on Fire. It's not the same thing. He blatantly reworked wholesale scenes from CoF and passed it off as his own unique story. That's called plagiarism. Now before Jon jumps in with his Scorcese 'smuggling' reference, what Tarantino did was plagiarism, pure and simple.

It would be the same as a film critic going over to IMDB and reading a few of the responses from assorted members about a film and fabricating those responses into one thematic review. It's not original, it's plagiarizing.

So, had Tarantino at the time admitted to using parts of the Hong Kong film as base for his story, would he have been better received by those critics?

He most definitely would have. Only now, he wouldn't be quite thought of as the wunderkind he is. And as Tarantino has proven time and time again, it's all about him.

[Critter]

I always find it amusing when these Tarantino debates arise. Tarantino fans like Jon and myself are clearly not going to give into the way of thinking from the Tarantino haters (or dislikers if you will). And the haters aren't going to succumb to the fans reasoning for liking him. In the end it's an endless battle as neither side will back down.

[Kathy]

[Antares]

I think that hater is too strong a word for how I feel about him.

I truly believe that he is a masterful craftsman when it comes to framing, editing and scoring a film. He's also extremely knowledgeable when it comes to cinematic history. I just don't genuflect at his altar when it comes to his screenplays. He placates to the demographic age that are his bread and butter, thus his films are banal, immature and narcissistic.

I don't begrudge anyone for finding enjoyment in any of his films, but don't pass him of as the next Welles, Kurosawa or Kubrick. He's not even in their league.

[Jimmy]

He is not even the next Bill Rebane

[Dragonfire]

I don't think I'm a hater of Tarentino ..I just don't usually like his movies.  They are all just long bloody messes with dialog that goes on and on and on...and on but says nothing.  Even though his movies have been about different things, they are too much alike with all the extreme gory violence..even the music at times is very similar. 

In some of the interviews and things I've seen with him, he's come across as arrogant and pompous, fulling believing that he is the next great director.  He is hugely over rated.  Even with the few movies of his that I did like, I only sort of liked them. 

I may give Jackie Brown a chance sometime since it is so much different from his other stuff.  I have been wiling to give him a chance..I even went to see Inglourious Basterds despite having reservations.  That movie does have some good moments..but they don't make up for the other things I didn't like about the movie.

[Critter]

I think that hater is too strong a word for how I feel about him.

That's precisely why I put disliker as well as hater. You can choose your own level of not liking the guy.

[Antares]

They are all just long bloody messes with dialog that goes on and on and on...and on but says nothing.  Even though his movies have been about different things, they are too much alike with all the extreme gory violence..even the music at times is very similar. 

Amen! They could have filled a swimming pool with the amount of blood shown in the two Kill Bills. But the worst instance is in Reservoir Dogs, where Tim Roth pretty much is swimming in his own blood, and yet stays conscious.

In some of the interviews and things I've seen with him, he's come across as arrogant and pompous, fulling believing that he is the next great director.  He is hugely over rated. 

He doesn't come across as arrogant, he is arrogance personified. In the Egoist's Hall of Fame, he ranks ahead of Mick Jagger and Warren Beatty, now that is some feat.

[Jimmy]

But Warren Beatty is a good director (at least Reds is a masterpiece) so he had the right to be arrogant.

[Achim]

They are all just long bloody messes with dialog that goes on and on and on...and on but says nothing.  Even though his movies have been about different things, they are too much alike with all the extreme gory violence..even the music at times is very similar. 

Amen! They could have filled a swimming pool with the amount of blood shown in the two Kill Bills.

You say it like that's a bad thing

But the worst instance is in Reservoir Dogs, where Tim Roth pretty much is swimming in his own blood, and yet stays conscious.

He does get pretty pale though... Blood, or better hemoglobin, is one of the best dyestuff(?) there is, small puddles of blood look worse than they are. And thirdly and most importantly, it's a movie and all done for effect.

[Alien Redrum]

Specifically with Coffy and Foxy, important? Absolutely. Watchable? Hell no. Plus Grier made her mark in those films because in a way, she was having to fight for respect even while they were being made. There’s a fight scene in one, I can’t remember which, but the only point of it is to rip each others tops off. That’s dishonest bollocks and thank goodness we’ve moved on.

I disagree, but I can't articulate why just yet. It's stuck in my head and won't come out. However, you are most likely thinking of Black Mama, White Mama.

I just take Tarantino for what he is; truly talented, never boring and making far more important films than the regular crap we get shovelled every week, that does nothing but manipulate and undermine the viewers intelligence. And I know you hate me saying this, but his work, loved or loathed, has created great exposure for the originals that you love so much. Everyone wins! More obscure titles have a chance of being published because distributors have a new market to aim at (I bought Inglorious Bastards because it was just a couple of quid in Tesco, on the back of Tarantino's film). And those of us who don't like the ropey old rubbish have shiny better versions to watch courtesy of QT! 

I will not argue any of this (except the truly talented part. He has a good eye and ear, but he is not original).

Dare I say it, I'm thankful for him on some level.  

You are absolutely correct in that he does bring much needed exposure to films that otherwise would not get solid releases.

I just hate, hate, hate crap like "Quentin Tarantino Presents Iron Monkey". WTF? You ass. You didn't have anything to do with Iron Monkey, yet you damn well insist your name is on the cover. Argh! :lol:

I truly believe that he is a masterful craftsman when it comes to framing, editing and scoring a film. He's also extremely knowledgeable when it comes to cinematic history. I just don't genuflect at his altar when it comes to his screenplays. He placates to the demographic age that are his bread and butter, thus his films are banal, immature and narcissistic.

Well said, and you cover my feelings on him as well. I think the difference between you and I, though, is I still find enjoyment in his films. When it comes to originality, he is the hackiest hack to ever hack, but I will say the parts of films he steals (and, let's face it, he's straight up ripping off entire scenes from other films), they really are the best parts of some of these movies. So he's got talent in that regard. Although spotting cool isn't really a talent. :lol:

[Antares]

I think the difference between you and I, though, is I still find enjoyment in his films.

I can't for the sole reason that I know that if I knew him personally, I'd want to strangle him. That smarmy pseudo hipster demeanor of his and all of his characters would lead me to homicidal action. For me, every character is just an extension of him, and after 20 minutes, I've had enough.

It kind of reminds me of that episode of the Twilight Zone with Sheckey Greene as the accountant in New York who hates the over-crowdedness of the city. He bemoans how his life would be so much better if everyone were just like him. The next day he awakens to find that his wish has come true, everyone is just like him. They all look like him, they all talk like him and they're all just as annoying as he is. That for me, is what it is like watching a Tarantino film, that is, except for Jackie Brown.