Topic: New copyright law in Canada.

[Touti]

I guess most of you aren't aware of this since you're not in Canada but a new bill has been deposed to change the laws on copyright in Canada.

An article I was just reading said something very interesting.  As of now, it is not illegal in Canada to make copies of movies or music and give them to friends or even sell them.  That really surprised me as I thought it was illegal to sell copyrighted material without paying the royalties.

I haven't read all the details of the proposed law yet but something in the article I just read bothers me.  The bill makes it illegal for individuals and companies to distribute or help distribute (torrent) copyrighted material but it will still be legal for people to make backup copies or to make copies of copyrighted material they've legally acquired to play them in any device they want.  In short, we can buy CD's, convert them to MP3 and download them to our MP3 players or keep ripped copies of legally bought movies on our hard drives.

The proposition is that the law shouldn't stop people from making private copies, that it should be up to the owners of the copyright to decide if they want to digitally protect the content. It is proposed that it would become illegal to manufacture and/or distribute software that breaks the protection installed by the copyright owners.

Isn't there a contradiction there ?  Does it make sense to say that I have the right to make a copy of a CD I bought to keep in the car but that whoever owns the rights on that music can block me from doing that ?  Is it logical to protect my right to keep copies of my movies on my hard disk but to make it possible for studios to prevent me from doing so ?

I'm curious as to what others think about that.  Should copyright owners be allowed to stop me from listening/watching the music/movies I paid for where and how I want ?

[Jimmy]

I'm sure glad that we finally do it
As most people here already know I help some companies to catch the copyright violation of their materials on the web, so it's certainly a good thing. At least it will give the power to force the provider to give the log of their clients who are suspected of piracy because of the volume of their downloading and uploading activity (wich is impossible with our current law). So it's the death of Cinemaggeddon and it's the best news of the year and it will be better when the guys who run it will be brought in front of a court of law (those guys are the greatest asshole I've ever deal with).

For those who respect the law currently nothing will changed. You will had the right to backup your own matérials as it were always possible (the taxes on the backup materials is for that). Before someone say it's a victory of Big Brother let me say it isn't the case at all... if you do nothing illegal the law won't touch you at all.

It's important to understand that when you violate (??) a copyright you punish yourself since the price get higher, the materials aren't released and many indie label goes out of bussiness.

The "you" here is a general "you" of course

[Touti]

For those who respect the law currently nothing will changed. You will had the right to backup your own matérials as it were always possible (the taxes on the backup materials is for that). Before someone say it's a victory of Big Brother let me say it isn't the case at all... if you do nothing illegal the law won't touch you at all.

We will have the right to backup and copy our legally acquired material but the owner of the rights will be allowed to digitally protect it and software to break the protections will be illegal.  That's the part that really bothers me.  I have no problem with making piracy illegal and I agree with you, tough luck for the pirates.

I just have a bit of a problem with having my rights to do something protected by a law when the same law also allows limitations on how I can exercise that right.  And that's not only about backups, it's also about your right to watch/listen what you paid for where and how you want.  If music studios decide to start selling DRM protected CD's in Canada I will not be able to rip them and transfer the songs to my MP-3 player which the new law will say I can do.  Then if I use software to break that protection I'm breaking the law and my private copy becomes illegal.

This really is the only thing I find wrong with this.  A law can't give you a right and at the same time allow for something preventing you to exercise that right.  It's just as stupid as the law saying it's not illegal to sell radar detectors but it's illegal to own/use them.

[Jimmy]

Eric can you tell me where you have read it and if it's in french it would be better. I would like to check it (of course I could always check the governement website when I will be home in an hour or so).

[Tom]

I'm curious as to what others think about that.  Should copyright owners be allowed to stop me from listening/watching the music/movies I paid for where and how I want ?

I am not an expert on law, but I think we have the same already here in Germany. At least, as far as I know, it is illegal in Germany to sell software which can circumvent copy-protection.

[RossRoy]

That's my only gripe with the new Canadian copyright law - the fact that they will explicitly allow time-shifting (DVR) and format shifting, yet at the same time, the companies could just put the simplest form of easily crack DRM and that would automatically make it illegal for me to do what I'm explicitly allowed to do.

[Touti]

Eric can you tell me where you have read it and if it's in french it would be better. I would like to check it (of course I could always check the governement website when I will be home in an hour or so).

I tried to read the proposed bill but it's very hard to follow because it's not the complete law, it only tells what changes will be made to paragraph x,y or z.

This is the article I read this morning.

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/arts/201006/03/01-4286381-le-piratage-deviendra-illegal-au-canada.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_B9_arts_244_accueil_POS4

[Jimmy]

Thanks Eric

[Touti]

Thanks Eric

Thanks for what ?  Telling you how you'll be screwed and no longer be allowed to make copies of the rare DVD's you've spent years and a lot of many on acquiring ?

No problem...............you're welcome !  

[Jimmy]

But nothing prevent it Eric as long as you don't break the protection. The majority of the companies don't use a protection system since they had no problem with the fact to make a personal back-up just in case (except for Sony I haven't seen to many companies lock their CD or DVD). The guys I work with would be the first to tell you it isn't the problem and the reason why their sales had decreased by 75% since 3 years. The reason is the Torrent system based in the country, since the Canada is actually an heaven for the pirates wich make us the shame of the occidental world. I'm even sure that some label will add a downloadable version of their film if you want to had one version for your ipod or a mirror image for your personal use.

Don't see all in black

[Touti]

I agree with you that the biggest lost for them is the real piracy where people sell counterfeit CD's/DVD's or just cheap copies, that and the torrents of course.  But look at what the music industry did once they managed to shutdown Napsters and others like it.  They started selling music online and they jumped on the occasion to do what was never possible before, they sold music with DRM protections and all kinds of complicated and stuff such as how many times you can download it, burn it, transfer it to your portable device, how many devices you can have the piece in at the same time etc.

Given the chance, they won't hesitate to do it again.  If they succeed at (almost) stopping piracy using the new laws, they'll have no 2nd thoughts on putting DRM protection on medias again and try to force you to buy it in multiple formats if you want to listen or watch it on different platforms or devices.  Once it becomes difficult and risky to acquire pirated stuff and people can no longer say it's better and easier for them to get it illegally, they will have to go the legal way and studios will make money anywhere they can.

[RossRoy]

But nothing prevent it Eric as long as you don't break the protection. The majority of the companies don't use a protection system since they had no problem with the fact to make a personal back-up just in case

Problem most (if not all) commercial DVD now are CSS encrypted (you need something like DVD Fab or DVD DEcrypter to rip it). I have a few CD that are "copy protected" (clicks and pops if ripped digitally. I had to record them through the analog output).

Circumventing these is what will now be illegal. Meaning that backup copy I made of The Jungle Book so that my niece won't break my original will be illegal in the future because using DeCSS will be illegal. Yet, the law explicitly will allow me to legally do the backup - just not to decrypt it - which makes the "fair use" right completely moot.

[Jimmy]

But the system is not a bad one. You can buy what you want to in place of an album at 20$ with only one good song in it. It's a little bit like the old single system no? For what I've understand the restriction is more the fault of Apple than the music producer themselves (BTW didn't Apple remove it not too long ago?).

force you to buy it in multiple formats if you want to listen or watch it on different platforms or devices.

It was always like that Eric. You don't get a free DVD or BR update because you own the VHS version of a movie. Just like you don't get a free CD because you have bought a vinyl 10 years ago.

[Touti]

It was always like that Eric. You don't get a free DVD or BR update because you own the VHS version of a movie. Just like you don't get a free CD because you have bought a vinyl 10 years ago.

That's true Jimmy.  But today if you buy a CD you can rip it onto your computer and then transfer it to your MP3 player or laptop to listen to it on the go.  You can put it on your home server and then play it back anywhere in your home as long as you have a computer or a media extender in the room.

With DRM protection they can control on how many devices you can copy your files, how many times you can burn them, they can even try to force you to buy a certain make or model of MP3 player by using levels and types of DRM protection that they will only license to manufacturers they chose.

Yes most of them removed the protection and started selling MP3 a while ago but I think it's only because it was the only way they can save their business.  Apple followed after a while but while they did that they also increased their prices to compensate.

What I fear is this.  If studios can successfully prosecute pirates with the new law and put an end to piracy or make it very hard and risky it will be very easy for them to go back to what online music was 2 years ago.......a nightmarish DRM jink junk.

And trust know I have good reasons to be afraid of that because I paid money to purchase music legally and I've lost many of it after a hard disk crash since when I tried to download them again it turned out that the DRM protection in some of those limited me to 2 downloads.  Some of them were also never burnt on CD's because that "this feature is not available for this track"

I've told myself many times I should just download illegal movies and music like everybody else, it's free and once I have it it's mine to use as I please.  Legally purchased movies and music don't guarantee that.  You're free to do what you want with it now but there's no guarantee it will stay like that.

Which brings me back to the contraction in the new law giving me the right to make private copies but giving copyright owner the right to prevent me from doing it.  They will never stop piracy if they try to force people to more than once for the same songs or movies.  Let's just hope they're smart enough to understand that.

Long posts, I'm tired now.  I feel like I've been pleading this in front of the supreme court all day 

[Najemikon]

I suppose they're trying to be clever and put the responsibility of how music and film downloading is perceived in the hands of the people who own the work. That means if the copyright owners come up with a popular and successful way of distributing their work, there are no laws to circumvent.

As way of example, have any of you seen Digital Copies now coming with some DVDs/Blu-Rays? I have a couple and these are the points of how they work:

- The intention is to give you a legal copy of the film that you can watch on computer or hand-held video device, like a smart-phone.
-The physical disc and code that you buy with the Digital Copy on is time limited. So if you by the Up Super-Set next year, emblazoned with "Free Digital Copy!", you may find you have nothing more than a toaster.
- When you enter the code it installs a small utility that extracts the two files from the disc. One is a HQ rip for your computer, the other is lower quality for your phone.
-The HQ version is DRM and can only be played on the computer that it was installed upon. The smaller file can be played anywhere.

So they've given me an entirely free to roam version that isn't worth giving to anyone unless they're morons who only like to see films in 640x480. I also have a much better version, good enough to distribute, only I can't, because it's locked.

That's pretty good and means I have no defence if I copy it for someone.

The only problem is bloody DRM! Rebuilt my PC and didn't backup the hidden certificates? Oh well, gone forever.

I lost some music like that and I did backup the damn certificates, but they were not compatible across WMP versions. Shows how much M$ cares, the gits.

So I don't use DRM protected music any more. Make of that what you will.