Alien, I didn't see your reply until I'd spent way too long on that one!But I do address your points. More specifically though, I'm sure Red Dead is gorgeous, but artistic skill is not a measure of whether it is art. In The Searchers, there is a correlation between Ethan's soul and the environment. Ford could have line drawn a cartoon and got the same effect, so photo-real landscapes is not where it's at.
And I agree Jackson Pollack was a mess. But he presented it to be considered; why did he do such a mess and why are we bothering? I don't bother, it's shite.
Michael Bay will never be an Auteur...
That said, that will be the last thing I say to you as I'm blocking you.
Of course video games can't be compared to Shakespeare et al. but look at how long writing was around before he turned up!
...Ok firstly.... Really?Quote from: Alien Redrum on June 15, 2010, 09:15:35 PMThat said, that will be the last thing I say to you as I'm blocking you...This thread seems to be getting overly heated for something so many people consider subjective, its going around in circles. I can't see any end to his debate... Ever.
The Old Testament was written more than 2000 years ago and it's a good reading : full of violence, revenge and frightening moment. But maybe it's sacrilege to call it a work of art
I think a good example is in Modern warfare 2 where... (click to show/hide)your character (undercover) has to join in on a terrorist attack on an airport. How you approach that section is up to you. It's not a choice based on difficulty but morality.
Quote from: Emma (snowcat) on June 15, 2010, 09:38:06 PM...Ok firstly.... Really?Quote from: Alien Redrum on June 15, 2010, 09:15:35 PMThat said, that will be the last thing I say to you as I'm blocking you...This thread seems to be getting overly heated for something so many people consider subjective, its going around in circles. I can't see any end to his debate... Ever.I'm 100% positive it's a joke in relation with the DVDP forum Emma
And I think that's where the subjective part comes in. You are looking for one particular thing when it comes to art, I am looking for something else. Do I think popping a bad guy in the head is art? , no, but I do think there are plenty of games out there that have artistic merit for what I'm looking for (I go for the more visual, as opposed to the inner struggles and such).To be clear (as we haven't interacted that much and this is the web, after all), I'm not criticizing what you look for. I'm not even judging it. It's just not what I look for, so to me (and many others), it's art. As you said...QuoteAnd I agree Jackson Pollack was a mess. But he presented it to be considered; why did he do such a mess and why are we bothering? I don't bother, it's shite....we are in definite agreement, but does that mean it's not art?Stupid art being subjective. That said, that will be the last thing I say to you as I'm blocking you.QuoteMichael Bay will never be an Auteur...YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT AND YOU WILL NEVER KNOW ART EVER.
Michael Bay will never be an Auteur, yet the mere existence of his film means they should be considered art? That I find slightly... cheap.
Quote from: Jon on June 15, 2010, 09:02:23 PMMichael Bay will never be an Auteur, yet the mere existence of his film means they should be considered art? That I find slightly... cheap. Bravo sir!
Quote from: Antares on June 15, 2010, 10:29:17 PMQuote from: Jon on June 15, 2010, 09:02:23 PMMichael Bay will never be an Auteur, yet the mere existence of his film means they should be considered art? That I find slightly... cheap. Bravo sir! I beg to differ. At one time Wiki had him in the Auteur Theory entry. (click to show/hide)Uploaded with ImageShack.us
I was a fool for mentioning video games in the first place. I would never express an opinion on a movie I hadn't seen. Yet I declared as an axiom that video games can never be Art. I still believe this, but I should never have said so. Some opinions are best kept to yourself.
I should not have written that entry without being more familiar with the actual experience of video games.