Topic: Cultural References

[DJ Doena]

Hi, I have a question to you.

As you might have noticed I watch a lot of TV shows. My feeling is that since the late 90s the shows contain more reference to pop culture than before.

Let's take Stargate SG-1, Buffy, Smallville or Lost. In many episodes there are references to Star Wars or Star Trek, Xena and other shows.


Has it always been this way (and I didn't notice it) or is this a "recent" attribute of TV shows?

[Najemikon]

I know what you mean. The phrase "post-modern" pops up in almost every review now. Only an old person could say for sure, but I think this is a relatively new thing. A run of irreverent film-making styles started in the 1970s, and through the 1980s, based on previous decades of material (Star Wars and Flash Gordon from the old serials, and horror films ramping up the basic Psycho formula). They created more cult followings in themselves. That generation has grown up with pop culture a massive part of their lives, so as they decide to write new material, it comes up to the surface. Kevin Smith and Edgar Wright would be entirely lost without it!

From what I remember my mum and dad saying about childhoods in the 1950s, entertainment was just that and had a time and a place. But after then, the geeks took over the world and now their writing for the next generation and embracing geekiness! I wouldn't be surprised if there was a backlash and we start to see pop culture references fade. I grew up watching Knight Rider and A-Team, but there isn't anything to replace them so the current generation won't have anything to refer to. Plus everything is so hyped up these days, a "cult" following required for later references is impossible.

[lyonsden5]

The way I see it today's shows try to come across as being real, as if they were actually happening. The best way to do this is to add references to what is going on now as well as generic references used by people today.

Yes, I agree it is happening more and more but is has been used for quite some time. Miami Vice comes to mind as well as 21 Jump Street. Both 20 years old, both used current cultural references in their shows. At the time it made them stand out, now it's the norm.

Good question  2 points for a thought provoking thread


EDIT: I love the "Wizard of Oz" references in SG-1. I believe in the "making of" type shows Sci-fi used to run yearly it was mentioned that the Wizard of Oz was the most referenced for some unknown reason. My favorite reference didn't make it to air though, and wasn't about the Wizard of Oz. When Carter and O'neil were stranded on the Ice Planet. While filming Carter changed her line to something like "I'm stranded on a planet with MacGyver and we still can't escape"  Perfectly delivered as if it were written in the script. RDA lost it (of course). Made for a great outtake.

[DJ Doena]

I grew up watching Knight Rider and A-Team, but there isn't anything to replace them so the current generation won't have anything to refer to. Plus everything is so hyped up these days, a "cult" following required for later references is impossible.

I am embarrassed to ask, but could you rephrase that, because I don't understand what you're trying to say.     

Miami Vice comes to mind as well as 21 Jump Street.

I never watched Miami Vice. 

21th Jump Street I did watch and it seems to be likely that they made comments.

The first reference I do remember is when Face (Dirk Benedict) from the A-Team is in Hollywood and stumbles across a Cylon, but I don't know if that counts because it's a reference specially directed to Dirk:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ls8mKdKYQV8" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Ls8mKdKYQV8</a>

[lyonsden5]

Yeah, always did like the cylon reference. FWIW there will always be only one "Starbuck" in my eyes. That other person is Kara 

Your clip brings up another topic probably best suited for it's own thread. 1:30 seconds for an introduction. Ahhh, those were the days. When you were entertained by the theme song (or even sang along with it). Now, they show you a 3 second flash of the title screen. Gives them that 1:30 back to sell advertising 

[Najemikon]

I grew up watching Knight Rider and A-Team, but there isn't anything to replace them so the current generation won't have anything to refer to. Plus everything is so hyped up these days, a "cult" following required for later references is impossible.

I am embarrassed to ask, but could you rephrase that, because I don't understand what you're trying to say.     

That's alright! I was struggling to say it... Actually, I still am... Basically, I think pop-culture references work best as 'nudge', 'wink', secret code links to cult TV and film. I don't think there is any cult TV now. Or even films. If something is successful, it gets over hyped and old very quickly. I suppose the Internet can take a huge amount of blame for that.

I think the same thing has happened in film. Up to the late 1980s there were loads of cool, high concept family films. What was the last truly original blockbuster you saw, that wasn't based on a comic, a book, a TV show, or another film? I'm thinking about things like Ghostbusters and Back to the Future, or Goonies.

In other words, there are a lot of pop-culture references now because they're written by 30-somethings who remember how cool it was to have a red flashy thingy on the front of a talking car. Cool ideas like that don't happen anymore, so the next generation of writers are growing up without red flashy thingys to reference. I was giving Wes Craven a kicking the other day, but the days of simple characters like Freddy Krueger or Jason seem to have gone and nothings replaced them either.

Think of it another way. Fast forward ten years and imagine you're writing a TV show. You want to put in a pop-culture reference to trigger warm nostalgic feelings in people of similar age to yourself. What iconic character fits the bill? I can't think of one. The guy from Saw? Jack Bauer? Neo from the Matrix maybe. Mal from Firefly is no Captain Kirk, and as Rick said, the new Starbuck is no match for the old... 

[DJ Doena]

Ok, then I got your point after all.

But I can't fully agree. Yes, there are a lot of remakes lateley and re-usage of previous ideas but some of them still stand on their own.

And then there are still original ideas out there.

And the references can pollinate themselves. Jay & Silent Bob discuss whether or not it was right to destroy the second death star and we discuss Jay & Silent Bob.

[DJ Doena]

Another observation: Current "this time" series use a lot of live music.

For example:
Ally McBeal and Vonda Shepard
Buffy and the bands in the Bronze
Smallville and the several festivities in the school

[lyonsden5]

Another observation: Current "this time" series use a lot of live music.

Good point. Many of todays shows say "tonight's episode featured the songs of [band]". Probably the most incredible one I've seen to date was an episode of "Cane" a few weeks ago. It featured Alicia Keys performing what they billed as her new single. Conicedently her new album came out the next week. Talk about a commercial for a new album!

[addicted2dvd]

Another observation: Current "this time" series use a lot of live music.

For example:
Ally McBeal and Vonda Shepard
Buffy and the bands in the Bronze
Smallville and the several festivities in the school

after reading this... the first thing to pop into my mind is Charmed with all the groups/performers at Piper's club P3.

[Tom]

after reading this... the first thing to pop into my mind is Charmed with all the groups/performers at Piper's club P3.

Contrary to Charmed it never felt forced in Buffy (IMO).

[addicted2dvd]

yeah... some of Charmed definitely felt forced. Especially with the way that it was always tacked at the end of the episode... always made me think... ok... their story came up short this week so they had to see what musical guest they could get so they could make their time.

[DJ Doena]

after reading this... the first thing to pop into my mind is Charmed with all the groups/performers at Piper's club P3.

Never watched "Charmed". Did I mention I am not into that witchcraft and fantasy thing?

[addicted2dvd]

Charmed is one of my favorites... but I am a huge fan of Holly Marie Combs! 

[DJ Doena]

Charmed is one of my favorites... but I am a huge fan of Holly Marie Combs! 

I liked her in "Picket Fences" and I like Alyssa Milano, too.