Topic: Michael Jackson dead

[Touti]

Just realised Eric mentioned Celine Dion in the same sentence as Madonna. I am officially in The Twilight Zone.

They obviously can't be compared from a musical point of view but they are currently the 2 biggest artists in the world.  According to Forbes latest evaluation Dion made 100 millions last year, being second to Madonna who made 110.  They are both very big artists world wide and if they died a sudden death I think the reaction would be just as big as it is now for MJ or as it was for Elvis, John Lennon and even Diana.

As I'm writing this I realize that your point about McCartney is probably true but I believe it's only because he's musical career is behind him already.  Elvis and Lennon were still big artists and they both died suddendly and although Jackson's career has been quite low for a few years he was still young, preparing for a return and there was lot of expectations.

I think the level of the reaction is proportional to how unexpected the death is and how much more the world could have seen of an artist.

[Najemikon]

I think they need to be an enigma as well though. The last one with a massive reaction I remember is Freddie Mercury and I was particularly attuned because Queen are my favourite band. It was a hell of a shock. One day he says he has AIDS, the next he's gone.  (by the way, if you like either, look on YouTube for a rare demo of Mercury and Jackson).

The reaction to Madonna would be huge, but something stops me thinking it would be Jackson level because he was such a mystery. Celine would bypass us; I think the UK is a little gap in her worldwide domination! Still very popular, but I can't remember the last time I heard her name mentioned, either on tour or a single/album release. Most only know her here because of that film with the boat...

[Jimmy]

Now you have to be kidding! Thriller is timeless. Most successful album of all time.  

A little bit maybe
It's just that I don't really care for his music (except for Beat it because Eddie van Halen play on it). He was just another media star creation for me, not really different than many other so-called stars.

................wait until Celine Dion dies.

Hell on earth, at least here

[Touti]

It's just that I don't really care for his music

But nobody really does Jimmy.  His contribution to pop music isn't musical, it's visual and that's what people will remember.  That is probably true about Madonna as well.  She and MJ aren't singers, they're performers and entertainers.

What we remember most about the Beatles is their music, is that true about Elvis ?  Except for a few songs I think he's remember mostly for the flashy suits and the dancing that turned the girls nuts.  I don't know how many songs MJ has written and recorded but I think only Thriller, Beat it and Billy Jean will become history.

I don't believe MJ is the last big icon but I wonder if we'll ever see another big musical icon.  Maybe turning the music art into a visual art is Jackson's true legacy although whether it's a good thing or not is another debate.

Oh and about Celine.............I actually think that for half the people here it will be a relief

[Jimmy]

Was Michael Jackson the Mozart of our time or a sign of a bankrupt culture?

No need to wrote wich writer I agree with...

[Najemikon]

What we remember most about the Beatles is their music, is that true about Elvis ?  Except for a few songs I think he's remember mostly for the flashy suits and the dancing that turned the girls nuts.  I don't know how many songs MJ has written and recorded but I think only Thriller, Beat it and Billy Jean will become history.

Elvis is remembered for "flashy suits"?  Jesus, the man was a genius and one of the greatest singers ever. Developed Rock n Roll and then mastered the Blues, Country, Soul. I've never even made an effort to listen to his music regularly, but that's what I'll remember first, like The Beatles. His famous white suit that is now such a cliche was in his last years. 68 Comeback Special concert (non-flashy version) 

Back to Michael, you seem to be discounting The Jackson 5. He'll be forever associated with a load of pop classics from that period alone. And he was an incredible song writer. You've missed Smooth Criminal, Bad, Man in the Mirror, for starters. Then there are his less flashy, more substantial songs, like The Way You Make Me Feel and I Just Can't Stop Loving You. People bought and played Thriller to death when pop videos and MTV was in its infancy; artists can get away with being purely visual now, but not then.

His influence on pop was massive, both recording and performing. Something I hadn't thought of before was talked about on the radio yesterday, that he was one of black musics pioneers. It's hard to realise now, but MTV refused to play black singers back in the 80s and it was Michael Jackson's sheer popularity that they had to. A lot of hip-hop and R&B cite him as an serious influence, and that was before he died. P Diddy called him "magic" in a quote yesterday, but I'm thinking of other interviews where rap artists became rather sombre and protective when discussing how he influenced them.

[Najemikon]

Was Michael Jackson the Mozart of our time or a sign of a bankrupt culture?

No need to wrote wich writer I agree with...

Whereas it's good to have a reality check, he goes too far because no-one has ever said Jackson is the modern equivalent of Mozart, but that's the basis of his argument. He was a popular entertainer and meant a small amount to a lot of people. But then this is The Daily Mail we're talking about. It's toilet paper. How about some insightful journalism? No, we'll have a "debate"? All you end up with is two angry writers.

The Daily Mail is all about anger, knee-jerk, protectors of our morality. Don't let 'em see your DVD collection, Jimmy, they'll trot out their "BAN THIS SICK FILTH" headline again! 

[Touti]

If we want to compare anyone with Mozart we have to wait 250 years after his death because Mozart's career was a complete flop.  His genius was understood way after his death but while he was alive he wasn't very popular, people didn't understand his music.

I'll wait and see if anyone talks about Jackson in 250 years.

[lovemunkey187]

I agree with Jimmy and everyone else on this.

I am sick and tired of all of the media coverage, but do think that he was a phenomenal performer and and an amazingly talented singer/songwriter. I may not be a fan of 90% of his things but I can still appreciate his skills.

The aspect of the media coverage that is annoying me is the hypocrisy of it all.
He was villified and crucified for the allegations of child abuse, but now the press are making him out to be one step away from sainthood.

................wait until Celine Dion dies.

Hell on earth, at least here

Personally I hope she's around until I've left this mortal coil. Not because I'm a fan, but because I hate, loathe, detest and despise that fucking song and the sodding thing will be on a constant loop.

[Touti]

The aspect of the media coverage that is annoying me is the hypocrisy of it all.
He was villified and crucified for the allegations of child abuse, but now the press are making him out to be one step away from sainthood.

What bothers me most is all the people buying his records.  I don't get it, Thursday morning they couldn't care less about Michael Jackson but now that he's dead they're rushing to record stores to buy his CD's.  That's freaking ridiculous.

btw, about record sales.  According to Wikipedia Thriller sold over 100 million copies worldwide which is twice as much as the runner up, Eagles Greatest Hits, which sold 49 millions.  According to RIAA however the best selling album in the USA is Eagles Greatest Hits with 29 million copies followed by Thriller at 28 millions.

Anybody want to bet with me that if Thriller hasn't passed Eagles since Thursday it will within a week ?

[Najemikon]

I ain't taking that bet and I'm also at a loss to understand the sales surge, but the ignorance of the masses can never be underestimated. There was a news report from HMV yesterday where they'd already sold 300 CDs of his albums. 

But it's like the film Sideways. Because the lead character went on about Pinot Noir and ravaged Merlot, sales of the former went up 16%, but worse, Merlot went down 2%. That's a lot of people who said, "what am I doing drinking this shit, even if I actually like it?".

Far better, more fitting reaction, I think, was the flash mob in London, organised through Twitter.

................wait until Celine Dion dies.

Hell on earth, at least here

Personally I hope she's around until I've left this mortal coil. Not because I'm a fan, but because I hate, loathe, detest and despise that fucking song and the sodding thing will be on a constant loop.

  You can see the headlines now... "Her Heart Will Go On"

[RossRoy]

If we want to compare anyone with Mozart we have to wait 250 years after his death because Mozart's career was a complete flop.  His genius was understood way after his death but while he was alive he wasn't very popular, people didn't understand his music.

You can switch out Mozart with just about any classical composer who is considered an innovator in his time. When you think that some of Beethoven's later symphony were simply too "shocking" for the public back then. Some even said Chopin committed blasphemy with the way he wrote some his music.

Today, they are all considered masters of their art.

Unfortunately, none of us will be here long enough to know how history will remember Michael Jackson. We can speculate all we want though

What bothers me most is all the people buying his records.  I don't get it, Thursday morning they couldn't care less about Michael Jackson but now that he's dead they're rushing to record stores to buy his CD's.  That's freaking ridiculous.

Yeah, I'm with you on that. I never understood that way of "thinking" from people.

Another thing that bothers me, is stuff like that: http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Michael-Jackson-Mention-Cut-From-Bruno-13729.html.

I won't comment much on it, only to say that from what I read, the only thing about Michael Jackson in the movie was a passing mention of his name during a skit with La Toya. Not even making fun of him or anything, just mentioning his name. What's the problem?

Are we going to edit out the WTC towers from every movie ever made? sheesh..

[Najemikon]

Another thing that bothers me, is stuff like that: http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Michael-Jackson-Mention-Cut-From-Bruno-13729.html.

I won't comment much on it, only to say that from what I read, the only thing about Michael Jackson in the movie was a passing mention of his name during a skit with La Toya. Not even making fun of him or anything, just mentioning his name. What's the problem?

Are we going to edit out the WTC towers from every movie ever made? sheesh..

I actually think things like that can be poignant. The only concession I'd make is that writer may be concerned if the focus and flow of his words will be spoilt should people hear an off-the-cuff remark and start thinking about that instead of the story.

Story? Focus? Flow? That doesn't sound like Sacha Baron Cohen's style though!

[lovemunkey187]

What bothers me most is all the people buying his records.  I don't get it, Thursday morning they couldn't care less about Michael Jackson but now that he's dead they're rushing to record stores to buy his CD's.  That's freaking ridiculous.

I don't mind that, cause hopefully the prices will drop and I can buy the "Bad" and "Off The Wall" cds really cheap, like £5 for the pair cheap.

[Jimmy]

................wait until Celine Dion dies.

Hell on earth, at least here

(...) I hate, loathe, detest and despise that fucking song and the sodding thing will be on a constant loop.

Consider yourself lucky, here we must endure her 2 times more. The radio plays her english and french song, the fact that the media had decided here that she is a goddess on earth make it very hard to not listen her songs or heard about her everyday. Even last week the media had talked more of her than any other people who had received the Governor medals (or something like that) and she was not even one of those (her husband had received it and don't ask me why... can't understand the reasoning).