Topic: To be or not to be on Facebook........that is the question !

[Touti]

For the record: James and I are now friends

[MEJHarrison]

James suggested I add Eric, so I'm guessing you're the Eric in question.  Didn't recognize the last name.

[Achim]

James suggested I add Eric, so I'm guessing you're the Eric in question.  Didn't recognize the last name.

I had the same . After sending PM to James (didn't want to intrude on Eric without being sure) I came here and  found this thread... Then it made all sense. For the record, Eric and I are now friends

[DJ Doena]

Facebook changes terms of service to control more user data

Facebook: All Your Stuff is Ours, Even if You Quit

[Tom]

Facebook changes terms of service to control more user data

Facebook: All Your Stuff is Ours, Even if You Quit

The controversial TOS of Facebook is the main reason that I did not join it after I looked into Facebook a little when this thread came up.

[Najemikon]

Facebook changes terms of service to control more user data

Facebook: All Your Stuff is Ours, Even if You Quit

I really thought that's how it was anyway and have no problem with it, except that most users are very naive about Facebook and probably don't understand the implications.

You're loading content onto someone elses server and you expect them to help you control who sees it and when, so I see this as a simple legality. You could read it as "we take responsibility for your content". By saying they own everything gives them absolute control, even historically, should the need ever arise to protect or prosecute a user. It also cuts out a lot of potential security issues regarding third party developers and all those applications that you have to grant access to. If Facebook owns everything it makes it easier for them to pick up on issues with those developers.

Bear in mind our fundamental rights haven't been affected, though maybe that depends on your own countries laws. But lets consider a hypothetical situation: if I suddenly saw a dodgy picture of me on a billboard advertising Facebook, I'm confident they wouldn't have a leg to stand on if I decided to sue. So I've no problem with it.

[DJ Doena]

But if you publish short stories on facebook you also give them the right to sell it. They get the copyright and if it becomes popular they get the money and you ... nothing.

[DJ Doena]

PS: In Germany this wouldn't even work. In the US someone can sell the copyright to a book he wrote to someone else and lose complete control over it. In Germany that's not possible. If you write something you have copyright for life. Of course you can sell the right of use to a great degree but you will always remain the copyright owner.

So it's technically impossible to hand over the copyright to Facebook - at least to its german branch.

[Najemikon]

Good example. Copyright law can be a minefield and I'm not sure how it would be handled in the UK. However, I would never publish original work on any website that I didn't own, especially something like Facebook? And if you did, they gave you the platform to publish it, so maybe they do deserve a slice from its success. Just as they would have to handle the fallout if it was a controversial piece of work. However, that said, Germany is obviously a great place to be an artist because you could manipulate such websites and get free marketing for something that will always be yours...

[DJ Doena]

However, that said, Germany is obviously a great place to be an artist because you could manipulate such websites and get free marketing for something that will always be yours...

Yes, sometimes german laws aren't just mantraps for the little people.

For example: Microsoft and other companies put an EULA (End User License Agreement) either in print in the package or they show it at installation time. In Germany such EULAs are invalid. Something can be only part of the purchase contract when you had the chance to read it before the purchase. In order to read the EULA you have to either open the package or start installing the software both of which happens after you bought it - thus the EULA is not part of your purchase contract and is not much more than toilet paper. Microsoft had to learn that lesson a few years ago.

[Touti]

However, I would never publish original work on any website that I didn't own, especially something like Facebook?

For the record: Jon's reviews here aren't original, he stole them from other sites.


I think all this stuff about privacy is bollocks. There is no such things as privacy in internet,  it's no secret that Microsoft, Google and Yahoo keep copies of emails on hotmail, gmail and rocketmail accounts, yet most people use those free email services to send very sensitive personal information.

There are things much more scary on earth than facebook keeping pictures of your ex-girlfriend.  A few years ago my sister bought plane tickets online with her MasterCard.....when she got to the airport she wanted to print her tickets and mistakenly put her Visa card in the machine instead of the mastercard.......yet the machine recognized her and printer her tickets and boarding papers. She never used her Visa card to buy plane tickets before so how come the air line was able to recognize her with that card ?

Three years ago, I flushed Bell Canada out of my life, had tons of problems with them for years and decided to go with other providers for my internet, phone and cell phone services.  I have never dealt with Bell Canada since I moved......how come I started receiving offers from them in the mail 3 months ago ?   Offers mailed to me, with my name and address........where did they get that ?

Companies all over the world sell and trade personal information as if it was candies.............without your consent.....or even worse.......with your consent but you not knowing that you actually gave it.........that is much more scary than facebook's TOS.

And for the record.......in today's world privacy is an illusion.

[Najemikon]

However, I would never publish original work on any website that I didn't own, especially something like Facebook?

For the record: Jon's reviews here aren't original, he stole them from other sites.

Good catch! But you know what I mean. Our reviews are just opinions with delusions of grandeur... you ain't getting my novel: "Eric and Me: A Life of Torment in Bits and Bytes" 

I think all this stuff about privacy is bollocks. There is no such things as privacy in internet,  it's no secret that Microsoft, Google and Yahoo keep copies of emails on hotmail, gmail and rocketmail accounts, yet most people use those free email services to send very sensitive personal information.

There are things much more scary on earth than facebook keeping pictures of your ex-girlfriend.  A few years ago my sister bought plane tickets online with her MasterCard.....when she got to the airport she wanted to print her tickets and mistakenly put her Visa card in the machine instead of the mastercard.......yet the machine recognized her and printer her tickets and boarding papers. She never used her Visa card to buy plane tickets before so how come the air line was able to recognize her with that card ?

Three years ago, I flushed Bell Canada out of my life, had tons of problems with them for years and decided to go with other providers for my internet, phone and cell phone services.  I have never dealt with Bell Canada since I moved......how come I started receiving offers from them in the mail 3 months ago ?   Offers mailed to me, with my name and address........where did they get that ?

Companies all over the world sell and trade personal information as if it was candies.............without your consent.....or even worse.......with your consent but you not knowing that you actually gave it.........that is much more scary than facebook's TOS.

And for the record.......in today's world privacy is an illusion.

Well put. About the Visa/Mastercard thing, were they with the same issuer? I've always accepted that seamless link between accounts because that's what it was designed to do. However, I am uneasy about the actual card authorising the Visa transaction. I'll have to try that one day just to see if it does it here.

Regards your experience with Bell Canada, we haven't gone that far yet in the UK because we can still abuse it! A few years ago my mate had an NTL cable Internet and phone contract. Then he got a new job and would have to move, so he rang them and asked for the account to be transferred. They told him he was bound to a 12 month contract at that address, but they would happily bill him twice for a second, new account elsewhere! He told them to get stuffed (may have taken him longer to say a few other things too!), cancelled the direct debit to his bank account and left the modem and phone connected.  They had no idea where he went and had no facility to track him down.

That's not all. As a contractor he moved around the country a lot. Went to a house where the previous occupant obviously had the same idea as he found a modem that worked with 4mb broadband for all the six months he was there. Never paid a penny!

[Achim]

He told them to get stuffed (may have taken him longer to say a few other things too!), cancelled the direct debit to his bank account and left the modem and phone connected.  They had no idea where he went and had no facility to track him down.

I had to learn that you can't do that in Germany...

I used to have a CompuServe account. Being happy with my Yahoo and GMail I decided to close the CompuServe account. After having diverted all critical mails to the other accounts I went ahead to look up a phone number to contact them (I had not received a snail mail letter from them in years) only to find that CompuServe Germany had been closed , yet they kept deducting the monthly payments just as they kept providing the service.

In December, when I was in Germany, my bank accountant told me that she could not cancel the withdrawal service as I originally gave my consent to CompuServe to do so,  only they can stop. But she can recall the money after they withdrew it (for up to 3 months)! So, she went ahead and recalled the payments for December, November and October. Without further notice my CompuServe account stopped working some time in January

[Najemikon]

Achim, you have an accountant? Who rescues your money? Cool.

Just saw this on Facebook:

Terms of Use Update

Over the past few days, we have received a lot of feedback about the new terms we posted two weeks ago. Because of this response, we have decided to return to our previous Terms of Use while we resolve the issues that people have raised. For more information, visit the Facebook Blog.

If you want to share your thoughts on what should be in the new terms, check out our group Facebook Bill of Rights and Responsibilities.

And this report on BBC: Facebook 'withdraws' data changes

Now that does bring up an interesting question. I hadn't thought about how material is shared with friends, but surely if you want to leave Facebook, your footprint on their profiles should disappear too?

[Achim]

Achim, you have an accountant?

apparently now the word I was looking for? What I meant is simply the person at my bank who is in charge of my account. Rather than speaking with different persons every time I can always contact the same woman and she'll be quickly up to speed about my money.

Who rescues your money? Cool.

No, far from it. The "accountant" actually sold me (the unknowing git) an investment package early last year, while markets were beginning to plummet all over the place But yes, she is able to resuce money from the clutches of evil doers